La Curva Nord

[Ed.]

Prove that I'm wrong.

I have been abused racially by a black too.

 

[Pimpin]

I have been abused by a black too.

 

[Ronin]

I would add that when black people abuse white people on racial grounds it's not racism (in some countries) because there's no institutional support and tradition of abuse. It's a discrimination, but not racism. Just because it's racial or discriminatory doesn't mean it's racist. The same with women and men. It's not sexism if women do it. That's why TheNetworkZ is not completely wrong imo.

Come on... that's the view that Tumblr teenage girls and social justice warriors share. Racism can be institutional but also personal/individual. If you hate people of X race or think your race is superior then you are a racist. Doesn't matter if there's a white or black president. Same shit with sexism. Anyone can be racist or sexist.

 

[Y&h]

From my personal experience and juvenile mistakes, I believe these problems aren't driven by racism or bigotry of any sort but rather ignorance.

 

[bandiera]

The Curva idolizes players like Maicon and Eto'o. I don't think it's an issue of racism, it's an issue of ignorance. Do you guys think they threw bananas on the pitch when Balotelli played in the derby because he was black? They did it because he was Balotelli and they wanted to piss him off.

It's unacceptable behaviour though.

 

[Y&h]

I have been abused racially by a black too.

 

[TGDella]

Prove that I'm wrong.

I have been abused racially by a black too.

The difference is that racism towards whites has not been historically used to justify enslavement, oppression, subjugation and genocide. If a black person is discriminatory towards someone who is white that is a shame and they are indeed displaying prejudice, but it doesnt carry the same historical significance, and is therefore correctly not treated with the same severity.
Watch this documentary if you're unaware of the history of racism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzqEaiGR7Xo

The Curva idolizes players like Maicon and Eto'o. I don't think it's an issue of racism, it's an issue of ignorance. Do you guys think they threw bananas on the pitch when Balotelli played in the derby because he was black? They did it because he was Balotelli and they wanted to piss him off.

It's unacceptable behaviour though.

Yeah this sounds right - the problem is that for the ultras racism doesn't seem to constitute a line that can't be crossed like it does for the rest of modern civilised society.

 

[ScottishInterista]

Are we still talking about what is racisim here and can i presume to ignore the next 50 posts in this thread

 

[Kakaroto]

If I've learned anything in the Internet is not to take the social opinion of people in a sports forum too seriously.

 

[TGDella]

lol yeah dunno why i got involved

 

[Armes]

The Curva idolizes players like Maicon and Eto'o. I don't think it's an issue of racism, it's an issue of ignorance. Do you guys think they threw bananas on the pitch when Balotelli played in the derby because he was black? They did it because he was Balotelli and they wanted to piss him off.

It's unacceptable behaviour though.

About Balotelli, yes, they threw them because they wanted to piss him off, but they could've thrown anything. Bananas are thrown for 'monkeys', and they're one of the most fucked up, provocative and racist shit fans of this day and age can do to black players. I don't give a shit if they idolize Maicon and Eto'o - If they had played for Rube instead of us, the fucks would throw them bananas too.

 

[Universe]

I think there are two general questions in play, neither of which I'll attempt to answer though, only briefly discuss.

1) differentiating between genuine 'racism' or prejudice/dislike towards certain ethnicities/races/colours/nationalities and 'merely' using racism as a device to insult others. Racism is never truly acceptable but people know that a history of racism or discrimination, whether locally or internationally is often a point of discomfort, shame, sadness or anger for the affected ethnic group. By provoking this topic, it's very easy to upset people. I've never claimed to be a particularly amazing person but even I'll have no problem whatsoever to stoop to the low blow of racial slurs, only if I am targeted first in such a manner. Why? Because I've never seen it fail to offend. It's never failed to offend me either. So if an Caucasian person were to call me a racial slur, I'll respond in kind (if the circumstances are 'favorable'. e.g. if some senile old cunt calls me a chink or a gook etc I'll just let it slide, because he's a senile old cunt and he'll die soon anyway. Though if it's just some average, young to middle aged person, hell yes I'll call them white trash back. The race of the person has no effect but to help me choose which racial slur I'll use. Does this make me racist? I'd say no. I don't genuinely have any dislike for any ethnic group or race on principle. But am I guilty of racism? Absolutely. Bonus question: Does this make me a shit person? u fkn wot m8

2) drawing the weird, blurred line between racism and occasional acceptance. Personally I've experienced an odd conundrum with many of my Caucasian friends which is this: as friends, they have genuine respect and sincere affection for me, but appear to hold a clear distaste for 'other' Asians. The key word is 'other'. I suspect this may come from the fact that growing up with these people, they consider me to be 'one of them' and somewhere in their confused, conflicted minds, have allowed me to bypass their racist goggles. The curva may be like this. Intolerant, but making exceptions for 'their own'.

Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in between these two issues. Perhaps it's just plain and simple racism. Either way I've wasted my lunch break typing this shit.

 

[Kazaan]

Come on... that's the view that Tumblr teenage girls and social justice warriors share. Racism can be institutional but also personal/individual. If you hate people of X race or think your race is superior then you are a racist. Doesn't matter if there's a white or black president. Same shit with sexism. Anyone can be racist or sexist.

that's sexist :troll:

Anyway, my point is that it's very important to distinguish between discriminatory practices between groups. It's not the same thing when Romani are discriminated against and when white people are. There is a difference in power relations and I think that difference is essential in understanding racism/sexism.

 

[Pimpin]

2) drawing the weird, blurred line between racism and occasional acceptance. Personally I've experienced an odd conundrum with many of my Caucasian friends which is this: as friends, they have genuine respect and sincere affection for me, but appear to hold a clear distaste for 'other' Asians. The key word is 'other'. I suspect this may come from the fact that growing up with these people, they consider me to be 'one of them' and somewhere in their confused, conflicted minds, have allowed me to bypass their racist goggles. The curva may be like this. Intolerant, but making exceptions for 'their own'.

u fucking uncle tom.

 

[Wings]

Prove that I'm wrong.

I have been abused racially by a black too.

yeah, your one experience proves that blacks have been just as racist to whites as whites to blacks

----------------

Any~way, some thoughts:

I don't think CN's love of Balotelli and Maicon proves they are not racists. Plenty of American slaveowners had personal affections for their slaves, but it would be ridiculous to claim that they weren't racist. (The modern-day equivalent of this would be someone claiming not to be racist because 'I have a black friend'). Note that I don't think this proves they are inherently racist either.

It could be very well true that none of the ultras are racist at heart and are just using racism as a tool to heckle Pogba. I don't really think that absolves them of blame though. Subtleties in intent don't really matter in such a macro context, as either way the overall intent was to lower Pogba's esteem on basis of his race. And I don't think all racism is created equal – measuring the severity of discrimination must be informed by historical context. (That is why calling Pogba a monkey and Bale a monkey have two different effects).

Side note: I think I agree with Mariella's view that white/black/Asian/etc. are races, while Italian/French/English are ethnicities. I don't really know whether Pogba suffering from kind of discrimination over another is any 'better.' (And I think it should be pretty obvious he was abused for being black, not French).

 

[Ed.]

yeah, your one experience proves that blacks have been just as racist to whites as whites to blacks

It still doesn't say black ain't racist. My point is racism is everywhere and by any races.

 

[Pimpin]

I don't think CN's love of Balotelli and Maicon proves they are not racists. Plenty of American slaveowners had personal affections for their slaves, but it would be ridiculous to claim that they weren't racist. (The modern-day equivalent of this would be someone claiming not to be racist because 'I have a black friend'). Note that I don't think this proves they are inherently racist either.

ninja what?

 

[KevinB]

It still doesn't say black ain't racist. My point is racism is everywhere and by any races.

I agree. I've been insulted by people of African origine as well and Turks. Racism is everywhere. History doesn't justify a damn thing

 

[Ronin]

yeah, your one experience proves that blacks have been just as racist to whites as whites to blacks

Bruh, we ain't talking about history here. It's a simple logic really. If you hate certain race or think your race is superior than theirs, then you are a racist. History doesn't matter when you're abusing someone racially.

Just because whites had black slaves doesn't mean black people can now get away with doing racist things because 'they were once slaves'. Equality and all that shit.

 

[Kakaroto]

*edited because this moderator is a pussy*