The Suning Commerce Group

[wera]

CCP is right to set limitations since Zhang was just getting loans from everywhere without really paying back (or without the ability/resources to pay back).
Poor people can't help that they are in debt. Rich people choose to be in debt, for their own hubris.... And the worldwide debt is just getting bigger and bigger

 

[.h.]

not really. Being rich is about good debt management. Look at Elon trying to buy twitter, that was basically all debt funded.

If you can borrow money at 1-3%, and you can make 5-10% on it, then it perfectly makes sense to borrow as much as you can. Pretty simple really. The problem is the longer term risk of a totalm arket collapse like this/evergrande

 

[wera]

Well yeah, I meant shit like this, which is especially prominent in the tech area (please don't mention Elon, he also gets funding from just promising stuff that is usually delivered poorly, if at all).

I know you can make money from it taking loans, that's the whole mantra - never invest your own money.

Sorry for the slight offtopic rant, I'm just annoyed because I'm not as smart and as cunning to become rich like these people

 

[.h.]

Well yeah, I meant shit like this, which is especially prominent in the tech area (please don't mention Elon, he also gets funding from just promising stuff that is usually delivered poorly, if at all).

I know you can make money from it taking loans, that's the whole mantra - never invest your own money.

Sorry for the slight offtopic rant, I'm just annoyed because I'm not as smart and as cunning to become rich like these people

meh, the never invest your own money thing doesnt really line up, banks dont lend you millions or billions without security.

It's just, if I have £1m in a house, I could sell my house to have £1m to invest in something, or I borrow £1m against my house, now I've got £2m with £1m liabilities, and as long as I use the £1m in cash to make more money than the interest on the £1m in liabilities cost me, I'm net profitable.

 

[Jusef]

Steven may have developed a love for Inter but I don’t believe the Suning acquisition of Inter is about anything more than funnelling money, or as more correctly put, a key into Europe/west banking/ financing system. This may not be the only way but when you make this deduction, you won’t talk about debt management or sustainability of the club from Zhang’s perspective.


After what happened with Abramovich, why would the Zhangs use their money to or any money to pay down the clubs debt. If the west were to impose sanctions on China, like they did against Russia, then Zhang would be forced to sell.

 

[Glass box]

Well yeah, I meant shit like this, which is especially prominent in the tech area (please don't mention Elon, he also gets funding from just promising stuff that is usually delivered poorly, if at all).

I know you can make money from it taking loans, that's the whole mantra - never invest your own money.

Sorry for the slight offtopic rant, I'm just annoyed because I'm not as smart and as cunning to become rich like these people

you can become a thug if you can't make it white collar

 

[#NotForMe]

meh, the never invest your own money thing doesnt really line up, banks dont lend you millions or billions without security.

It's just, if I have £1m in a house, I could sell my house to have £1m to invest in something, or I borrow £1m against my house, now I've got £2m with £1m liabilities, and as long as I use the £1m in cash to make more money than the interest on the £1m in liabilities cost me, I'm net profitable.

But is this the case for Inter? The ROE higher than the cost of capital?
The only way to achieve this so far, as it seems is by selling our core players.
I am not that against the buy low sell high on our "Assets", but the thing is certain assets are not valued correctly, like if I were to forcefully determine a player's intrinsic value, it would be the present value of the player's ability to bring in the expected value of trophies and prize money, along with the capital gain of the club's value increased due to the trophies, along with the affect on the merchandises selling which also ties to the Goodwill, and that definitely affects future acquisitions and future young fans attraction.
On top of that point, this is also not a reliable or sustainable way of generating revenue, first, to achieve this we need to "invest" correctly, meaning on the aggregate level we need to be selling higher than we purchase, which might suck us into a loop of constant rebuilding, look at the down fall of Arsenal, and people are not stupid, they won't sit there and let you use them like a thing.


To put it in FIF terms, we are pushing our valuable players out that can bring us trophies and accumulating players like Vencino, and building another banter era image for Inter, to make a net profit.

 

[.h.]

But is this the case for Inter? The ROE higher than the cost of capital?
The only way to achieve this so far, as it seems is by selling our core players.
I am not that against the buy low sell high on our "Assets", but the thing is certain assets are not valued correctly, like if I were to forcefully determine a player's intrinsic value, it would be the present value of the player's ability to bring in the expected value of trophies and prize money, along with the capital gain of the club's value increased due to the trophies, along with the affect on the merchandises selling which also ties to the Goodwill, and that definitely affects future acquisitions and future young fans attraction.
On top of that point, this is also not a reliable or sustainable way of generating revenue, first, to achieve this we need to "invest" correctly, meaning on the aggregate level we need to be selling higher than we purchase, which might suck us into a loop of constant rebuilding, look at the down fall of Arsenal, and people are not stupid, they won't sit there and let you use them like a thing.


To put it in FIF terms, we are pushing our valuable players out that can bring us trophies and accumulating players like Vencino, and building another banter era image for Inter, to make a net profit.

I wasnt commenting on Inter, just reflecting on the actual statement.

Our cost of capital isnt insignificant, but one thing to remember is that its not about acquiring positive cash generating assets, but presumably rather the overall increase in valuation in the club

 

[bubba zanetti]

These fuckers are still here? Fuck off!

 

[RickyMaravilla'sRightFoot]

These fuckers will never sell.

 

[ADRossi]

These fuckers will never sell.

This is factually correct, since they'll become insolvent and OakTree with take over the club.

 

[Gal]

They only way we can get out of this mess is if they cannot pay the interest to Oaktree that will then take over the club.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Yeah, too bad it's still two years of waiting for us.

I just can't figure out what is Zhangs end game here? Do they trust CCP will allow them to put money in within two years time? They can't make enough money even by selling all our players to cover the Oaktree loan (since if it's a firesale, prices sink a lot).

 

[Adriano@10]

Yeah, too bad it's still two years of waiting for us.

I just can't figure out what is Zhangs end game here? Do they trust CCP will allow them to put money in within two years time? They can't make enough money even by selling all our players to cover the Oaktree loan (since if it's a firesale, prices sink a lot).

Not sure we d be happier being owned by oaktree...
I mean look at how bbilan was run duting yhe eliot tenure...

 

[.h.]

If you think its bad now, wait until all our best players leave on Bosmans?

 

[CafeCordoba]

It's not great but there's a clear direction. And it's up to the club to be greater by raising the revenues.

At Inter it's a fucking shit show with Zhang holding out renewals for no reason for months. Asking player sales. We might end up to the same place as where Milan was if we just keep selling. The key difference is we are coming down which surely affects the morale of those who are staying. And doesn't look good from the outside either.

 

[Adriano@10]

It's not great but there's a clear direction. And it's up to the club to be greater by raising the revenues.

At Inter it's a fucking shit show with Zhang holding out renewals for no reason for months. Asking player sales. We might end up to the same place as where Milan was if we just keep selling. The key difference is we are coming down which surely affects the morale of those who are staying. And doesn't look good from the outside either.

Man if we were run like bbilan under eliot we would have sold everybody by now and we would not have renewed our stars...
How would that not put us in the same place bbilan was....
I still prefer us renewing our best players while draging our feet to not renewing them and losing em bbilan style.

The only thing that would arguably be better is that we d have a clear direction..

Also right now it s also down to the club to raise revenues and zhang surely aint stopping that...

Just look at how pissed we are for not renewing skriniar earlier..
Bilan did that with their captain at the time and lost him for free we d go maad in here

 

[Stefan]

They only way we can get out of this mess is if they cannot pay the interest to Oaktree that will then take over the club.

I don't see being owned by an invest fund being better. It may actually be worse.

 

[.h.]

Being owned by an investment fund is risky. That's the problem. It could be great - wipe our debts, invest in a new stadium, etc, to massively increase our value and then sell it for profit

Or, someone could come in, focus on cutting us down to a sustainable business (which is kind of what Suning are doing atm but trying to be a bit pragmatic about not selling our best players), and then sell us.

Too much risk. I'd rather stick with Suning.


Dont get me wrong - the dream owner is a sugar daddy who will fund the club properly WHILE ALSO improving our commercial etc revenues legitimately, so that if they do lose interest at least we self sustain, but that's not realistic atm

 

[CafeCordoba]

I will happily take the risk. Owners might provide us some funds for new players even though we indeed need to cut the costs. But we are cutting the costs anyway, without having the owner being able to do jack shit.

I'm not sure how Zhangs can even participate to the stadium project.