The Suning Commerce Group

[Adriano@10]

Being owned by an investment fund is risky. That's the problem. It could be great - wipe our debts, invest in a new stadium, etc, to massively increase our value and then sell it for profit

Or, someone could come in, focus on cutting us down to a sustainable business (which is kind of what Suning are doing atm but trying to be a bit pragmatic about not selling our best players), and then sell us.

Too much risk. I'd rather stick with Suning.


Dont get me wrong - the dream owner is a sugar daddy who will fund the club properly WHILE ALSO improving our commercial etc revenues legitimately, so that if they do lose interest at least we self sustain, but that's not realistic atm

Agreed imho the only real upside from being owned by Oaktree would be that theres a bigger chance that they just turn around and sell us for a big profit...
I mean zhang seems determined not to sell under 1bio....
Oaktree would make a killing even if they sell us for 500 or 600 mios

 

[.h.]

Agreed imho the only real upside from being owned by Oaktree would be that theres a bigger chance that they just turn around and sell us for a big profit...
I mean zhang seems determined not to sell under 1bio....
Oaktree would make a killing even if they sell us for 500 or 600 mios

exactly - I'd hope Oaktree would just take a decent profit offer and run, practically.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Agreed imho the only real upside from being owned by Oaktree would be that theres a bigger chance that they just turn around and sell us for a big profit...
I mean zhang seems determined not to sell under 1bio....
Oaktree would make a killing even if they sell us for 500 or 600 mios

This is exactly what's the issue with Zhangs. What is their plan? Can they pay back that Oaktree loan? They've withdrawn some of the money from that loan and given to Inter. Question is how much and how much Inter need to make + interests to cover the loan payback when the time comes.

 

[Universe]

I just can't figure out what is Zhangs end game here? Do they trust CCP will allow them to put money in within two years time? They can't make enough money even by selling all our players to cover the Oaktree loan (since if it's a firesale, prices sink a lot).

I'm not sure how Zhangs can even participate to the stadium project.

I don't want to get into politics but I'm convinced they are just hoping and praying that the Chinese government will bail them out - which won't happen. I believe their plan is to slowly balance the books, stem the bleeding and hold out as for as long as possible until then.

As for the stadium, indeed, it is a massive worry. At this point it seems they can't even commit to a fucking 30m transfer for Bremer without massive deliberation, let alone financing half of a stadium project. If we miss out on the joint venture with Milan and they build their own stadium, it will be fucking catastrophic. We would be left 15 years in the past.

 

[CafeCordoba]

I don't want to get into politics but I'm convinced they are just hoping and praying that the Chinese government will bail them out - which won't happen. I believe their plan is to slowly balance the books, stem the bleeding and hold out as for as long as possible until then.

As for the stadium, indeed, it is a massive worry. At this point it seems they can't even commit to a fucking 30m transfer for Bremer without massive deliberation, let alone financing half of a stadium project. If they miss out on the joint venture with Milan and they build their own stadium, it will be fucking catastrophic. We would be left 15 years in the past.

Exactly this. Lack of credible plan is extremely worrying.

 

[Corrode]

what can you expect from nearly nonexistent-company like Suning aka zhang family? eder miranda are even so disappointed at them for unpaid their salaries!

 

[Fitzy]

If only we put as much effort into building a stadium as we do negotiating deals for players that we don't have the funds to sign.

 

[Gal]

Not sure we d be happier being owned by oaktree...
I mean look at how bbilan was run duting yhe eliot tenure...

It can hardly be worse, as these capital fonds will always try to streamline the company, cut unnecessary expenses, and make it profitable so they can sell it to the highest bidder with a nice profit.

It might not necessarily be fun to witness as a fan, but at least the club won’t go broke and as a consequence of that get relegated to the amateur league, because that’s exactly what would have happen with the Zhang had it not been for the Oaktree backing.

 

[Batista]

I'm not sure how Zhangs can even participate to the stadium project.

He can't .
It is a chimera to distract the supporters. What bank would lend money to a company that is losing hundreds of millions a year?

 

[Adriano@10]

It can hardly be worse, as these capital fonds will always try to streamline the company, cut unnecessary expenses, and make it profitable so they can sell it to the highest bidder with a nice profit.

It might not necessarily be fun to witness as a fan, but at least the club won’t go broke and as a consequence of that get relegated to the amateur league, because that’s exactly what would have happen with the Zhang had it not been for the Oaktree backing.

And suning did not? Again look to bbilan and what they did to their roster and every big earner on there...
We re all bitching cause suning is thinking about selling Skriniar with a fund at the helm skriniar would already be gone so would lautaro and barella and brozo would be on the cutting list we d all go mad. I just dont see how it would be more acceptable to lose our stars when owned by a fund vs when owned by the zhangs.
That argument can be made two ways without covid we would not have needed oaktree....

This is exactly what's the issue with Zhangs. What is their plan? Can they pay back that Oaktree loan? They've withdrawn some of the money from that loan and given to Inter. Question is how much and how much Inter need to make + interests to cover the loan payback when the time comes.

Quite sure all of that money went to inter atleast it al went to the holding company that owns inter....

I m also a bit confused as to what the zhangs goal here is but to be fair for them selling inter for say 600 mios would not really make much of a dent as in they still would not have been allowed to recall that loan to evergrande and it probably would not have been enough money to keep control of suning.....

I still have the suspicion (consipracy theory) that part of the reason they are not jumping to sell is that Inter is their only asset that arguably is out of the reach of the CCP. The moment they sell and wire those funds to china their fully under CCP control...

 

[andrei]

And suning did not? Again look to bbilan and what they did to their roster and every big earner on there...
We re all bitching cause suning is thinking about selling Skriniar with a fund at the helm skriniar would already be gone so would lautaro and barella and brozo would be on the cutting list we d all go mad. I just dont see how it would be more acceptable to lose our stars when owned by a fund vs when owned by the zhangs.
That argument can be made two ways without covid we would not have needed oaktree....

With or without Suning or with a hedge fund this will happen to us. This year probably is Skrniar, next year Lautaro and so on.
How long we make these horrible losses every year we need to cut the bill. We need a fiscal discipline: salary cap, team expenses no more than 65-70% of revenues and so on.
As Batista very well said: which bank will lend money for a stadium to a company that losing 100m per year?

 

[Adriano@10]

With or without Suning or with a hedge fund this will happen to us. This year probably is Skrniar, next year Lautaro and so on.
How long we make these horrible losses every year we need to cut the bill. We need a fiscal discipline: salary cap, team expenses no more than 65-70% of revenues and so on.
As Batista very well said: which bank will lend money for a stadium to a company that losing 100m per year?

Disagree we closed last season with a 60 mio loss while still not having the stadium at full capacity we dont need a complete overhaul to get to break even.
Getting a new owner that wipes out our debt would already cut 23 mio per season from our costs.....

 

[Pimpin]

what is going on with DigitalBits? When me and adriano and brehme were eating shit, FIF were celebrating a better deal lol.

 

[Adriano@10]

what is going on with DigitalBits? When me and adriano and brehme were eating shit, FIF were celebrating a better deal lol.

It s even worse when considering that we signed this deal after the celsius debacle.....
On top of that the missing payment is apparently for last seaons sleev sponsorship.....

 

[Gal]

And suning did not? Again look to bbilan and what they did to their roster and every big earner on there...

They just won the scudetto so it worked, hard arguing against that.

We re all bitching cause suning is thinking about selling Skriniar with a fund at the helm skriniar would already be gone so would lautaro and barella and brozo would be on the cutting list we d all go mad. I just dont see how it would be more acceptable to lose our stars when owned by a fund vs when owned by the zhangs.
That argument can be made two ways without covid we would not have needed oaktree....

There is a difference between them, Suning sell those players so they can keep their priced possession and those have money placed outside the CCP reach, they sell only for paying off dept and holding their investment afloat until they need the cash, so they will continue this until we are left with players of lower quality then we had between 2012-2017.

A capital fond do it to make the club self sustainable and to improve its market value, because they want to profit from selling it.

The latter is far more preferable for us fans in the long run, as these fonds won’t keep the club for very long, just long enough to profit on it.

Quite sure all of that money went to inter atleast it al went to the holding company that owns inter....

Inter won’t benefit from a dusky holding company owned by zhang with questionable agenda.

I m also a bit confused as to what the zhangs goal here is but to be fair for them selling inter for say 600 mios would not really make much of a dent as in they still would not have been allowed to recall that loan to evergrande and it probably would not have been enough money to keep control of suning.....

I still have the suspicion (consipracy theory) that part of the reason they are not jumping to sell is that Inter is their only asset that arguably is out of the reach of the CCP. The moment they sell and wire those funds to china their fully under CCP control...

That is exactly the reason, they try to keep part of their fortune in arms length away from the CCP.

 

[.h.]

As far as anyone is aware, all the money raised by Suning from, e.g. Oaktree, went straight into the club. Our last financial statements showed it all sat on our bank account

 

[Gal]

As far as anyone is aware, all the money raised by Suning from, e.g. Oaktree, went straight into the club. Our last financial statements showed it all sat on our bank account

Well I would also expect Oaktree to have such terms, they aren’t lending money so Zhang can buy a new car.

 

[.h.]

I'm sure oaktree dont give a fuck, any default on the loan is good for them as they end up with Inter for cheap, like Milan/Elliott.

 

[Adriano@10]

As far as anyone is aware, all the money raised by Suning from, e.g. Oaktree, went straight into the club. Our last financial statements showed it all sat on our bank account

Yeah also it would be considred fraudulent in any market if they went out to raise money for inter and then just kept it themself....

Btw is this agreement public any where?

 

[CafeCordoba]

No, it's an agreement between Oaktree and Suning's European holding company, Great Horizon or something.