The Jose Experience

[coolmavs]

Time to write "The Jose Experience ver.2" Puma

:star: +2

 

[Puma]

I will wait until the end of the season to write anything further. The win against Chelsea and first leg quarter-final win in the Champions League against CSKA do not necessarily make our season. In light of the fact that we only have a single point lead in Serie A from second placed Roma, it is a little premature to be singing Mourinho' praises just yet.

 

[Xoonky]

But it is not premature to be singing him praises about the way he has transformed the team, from a simple, effective, muscular winning as well as BORING machine(for Italian football only), into actually a football TEAM, who pass and dominate, who actually play FOOTBALL.

 

[Luka]

I will wait until the end of the season to write anything further. The win against Chelsea and first leg quarter-final win in the Champions League against CSKA do not necessarily make our season. In light of the fact that we only have a single point lead in Serie A from second placed Roma, it is a little premature to be singing Mourinho' praises just yet.

We didn't passed the CL knockout stage for years.

This year Mourinho does it, and not only against teams like Villareal, or Valencia, but against one of the 3 best teams in Europe (Chelsea, Man Utd, Barcelona), and nothing happened ?

Come on Puma, I expected much more from you.

When we didn't win against Chelsea, it was still pushy, but we didn't go past Chelsea, so our season was just like last years (+ having more difficulties in Campionato), but the Chelsea win changed all that.

What you said right now, kinda shows you're biased, because at the moment you can't possibly deny our season (CL point of view) is the best since I don't remember how long (maybe Milan flares season).

 

[Puma]

Luka, I do not disagree with what you have written but you need to make a distinction between our best season in the Champions League since being knocked out by Milan and end results.

If Inter do not retain the Scudetto and get knocked out at the quarter-final/semi-final stage of the Champions League, will you be able to comfort yourself by saying we had a good season by winning the Coppa Italia or getting to the quarter-final/semi-final stage of the Champions League?

Xoonky, the same goes for your post. I do not disagree with your post. It may well be that Mourinho has transformed the team but if we end the season empty handed all of Inter's team work and domination of matches will count for nothing if we do not translate our efforts into winning silverware.

All I am trying to say is that Inter have not yet won anything and advancing in the Champions League is a good indication that the team has improved but will mean next to nothing if we end the season empty handed. Football is a fickle sport and is about final results. Finishing a season having played better football without winning silverware does not make a season.

 

[Handoyo]

Agreed with Puma's latest post. I don't necessarily agree with his overall view on Jose, or that it's Jose's fault if we end the season empty handed but getting to the semis of the CL means naught if we do not win anything this season.

 

[Luka]

Luka, I do not disagree with what you have written but you need to make a distinction between our best season in the Champions League since being knocked out by Milan and end results.

If Inter do not retain the Scudetto and get knocked out at the quarter-final/semi-final stage of the Champions League, will you be able to comfort yourself by saying we had a good season by winning the Coppa Italia or getting to the quarter-final/semi-final stage of the Champions League?

Although I do agree winning Serie A is fundamental, I won't curse us if we don't win it (that doesn't mean I won't be dissapointed). We won't win every season, and I will blame our players and Jose for that, but we also can't forget it is the first time for God knows how long, we have to go in 3 competitions for that long. Players are proffesional, but it ain't something that they experienced every season.

Anyways, I don't like doing editorials on things that WILL happen.

If we WILL loose scudetto in the end, we will talk back then. For me, if someone is already writing a piece on a negative result, is kinda pessimist, and maybe deep deep down he would want us to fail for some reason.

Why Puma you won't write editorial, about us winning CL, and Serie A, and CI, and what that will mean ? It can happen, we are still first in the league, despite our loss of points in last couple of months, just like it can happen that we will loose Serie A ? Instead you write only in negative way about our season.

If you would write both pieces, like I showed, from BOTH perspectives, I would deffinetly not called you biased, but you didn't.

I think you have something against Mourinho, or you don't like him too much, and that is the reason you focus on one side (negative side) of the picture.

 

[CafeCordoba]

I think he didn't write it because it's expected us to win the Scudetto.

However, this is an interesting discussion indeed. That if we don't win anything, what does it mean? To me, it's just a proof of the fact that we can't win every season, and frankly that's just right. Of course we are pissed (at least I am) if we lose the Scudetto because we had a ridiculous lead. Mourinho and players are directly responsible for that, the lack of concentration is theirs, not anyone else's.

But getting to semis could be the start of the trend that we actually might be a force in CL. We can't know that for several years yet is it the start of the trend or not, but we can hope. If it comes with the price of losing the Scudetto now then it's a fucking heavy price but in the long run I think it's not. Success in CL indirectly has its effect to the club as a whole, because that's where the money is, that's where the glory and fame are. And with success I don't mean the victory of the competition precisely but victories in the competition and getting to the later stages.

With that "success" we can develop our club better ways and keep fighting for the Scudetto and CL better in the future. Since we all know we've won the Scudetto in previous seasons because we've been so constant and have been able to keep the lead in the latter part of the season because we haven't had this distraction called CL. If Inter want to be a top club in Europe, they need to be able to handle domestic championship and CL in spring time. That's why we need that development and CL is a "vicious" circle economically. The better you do there, the more money you get and more money you get the better you do in CL and other competitions.

So if it comes only to the end results, we can keep winning the Scudetto like before and stay as middle-tier Euro club who can't concentrate on two competitions in the spring or we can try to develop our club to be that top-tier Euro club. That might need (I'm not saying it needs) the lose of Scudetto at some year (this or next or one after next etc. ) because we need to keep doing well in CL. That is our key to the pervasive success we are looking for.

 

[Luka]

Good points, especially the ones about loosing the Scudetto, but in the LONG TERM gaining something, and loosing the scudetto being just a consequence of that transition.

I will respond to this part however:

"I think he didn't write it because it's expected us to win the Scudetto."

That's not what I was pointing to. I wasn't saying he should write pieces (or one piece, but taking into account both perspectives) about winning and loosing scudettos, because winning scudetto is not an achievement anymore, as you've said.

Winning the CL is however. So if loosing a scudetto (and CL) would be the negative perspective, why don't write a positive as well (winning CL AND Serie A) ?

 

[ElCuchu]

I would agree with you if Inter was playing in EPL or SL...But there will be no excuse if we would loss the scudetto where our strongest enemy is Roma...let me say it again, Roma.

 

[Luka]

Again, it will be a failure to me, but I will be able to rationalise that.

It would be a lot worse, if we would be out against Chelsea, and loose in Scudetto without having to fight in CL as well.

 

[For-Real]

Is It The Winner Looser Mentality Or What ?

Am not in the mood of writing but i couldn't just ignore this piece of question which has called for a little debate . Not winning the league this year , what would it mean for Inter ?
Before one decide to answer this question we need to go back from our Scudetto which we won from Juventus in the 2005/06 season , from that season apart from the 2006/07 which we had a real run from Roma we have always won the Scudetto with good gaps , what am i going with this ?

Well because i want to make a little point about how far we have come and how things have changed this season , we have many teams improved this year it's not the top 4 that has improve but every team has improve , the promoted teams are strong and improved , aims has changed and teams like Palermo , Napoli , Sampdoria , Fiorentina , Genoa , Parma have all improved on their aim are CL spots and the rest are aiming for Europa league , strong teams like Lazio are fighting out of relegation and therefore are a treat for any team , look at Fiorentina and Napoli this teams are hardly beatable for any big 4 team and any European team , do you see how Juventus are suffering after few changes in their squad , look at the top 4 almost any team from Parma 11th can win CL spot , that shows how tough this league is this season , look at the relegation battle to the Europa league , from Bari coming downwards all can be relegated , when was the last time a team with 43 points in Seria wasn't saved from relegation ?.

Now after considering the competition from teams this year we can come back to our own Inter and see what's different this year and why this season has being off and on . Many hasn't realized since last year we have being building our squad for a different coach with a different formation , last year didn't work out us it was Mourinho first season in Seria A and he was trying to implement his famous 433 by adding 2 wingers to the squad and 1 defensive midfielder in Muntari , but last year he still relied on Mancini's squad , by this time last year we were knocked out of the CL by Man U and we had already were out of the Copa Italia therefore the squad ambition were Seria A , that wasn't it we already had a squad that had experience in winning the Seria A , we had a leader in JZ and a strike leader in Ibra , we had Adriano who always comes with a bang , we had Crespo and Cruz who were always scoring when given the chance and overall we had a new coach , a born winner in Mourinho who brought some new hope for CL , player's like Ibra and others were all so sure and believed they were going to qualify to the quater final even though we were up with a good team like Man U . What happened ?

Compare this to this season were we have 5 new players who are all breath bone of our team , we have a new defensive leader in Lucio , a new Midfield leader in Sniedjer and a new striking force in Millito and Eto'o , we have the squad this season and are more compact than last season but four of our most influential players are all having their first season with Inter and 3 are having their first season in Seria A . What should this tell us , are we rebuilding or what ? , well ask Real Madrid why they failed to achieve this season in CL and they would tell you one thing " This team is new and has a different identity and should be giving another year " , go and ask Man U while they are solely relying on 1 player on all front and they would tell you " We lost CR , we are building our squad and next year we would have the new players gild together to lift Man U again " , but what are the new players they are talking of Nani, Valencia , Rafeal , Babertov , Diouf or Macheada , it's only Valencia that's a new player but most of this players are now getting better chances and therefore Man U balance has changed not like last year were CR , Giggs and Ronney were running the show . Ask Barcelona the same thing or even just ask Chelsea they would tell you they have a new coach and therefore a new system .
Were am i driving all this at ? well we are the only team in Europe that has 5 ( or 6 depending on if Pendev starts ) new players who plays full time in our squad ,Real Madrid has just 4 and no other team has more than 3 to 2 , but they all are having difficulties , Barce the best team in Europe is sometimes even having some problem with just 2 full addition to their first 11 line up , how than do we fans of Inter who this year even with 7 new addition coupled with a new formations are trippping ? .
Yes we have had a sloppy moments ( Just like any team in Europe ) since this league at one stage looked almost wrapped up , our away form has being bad , coupled with some few bad decision ( which am never going to say is the one that's costing us the league ) but it's there and it has happened but it isn't what's costing us the league but our sloppy form is the real problem . And am not complaining about it , i love to see Inter winning , but am a born winner supporting a winning team like Inter , but any born winner realize one thing is not leading that makes you a winner is how you set your self up for that win that makes you a great winner , look at Barce , look at how Man U how they build and start another cycle and all other teams like us . This is why a winning team and future looking team like Inter shouldn't fear today but tomorrow

To wrap up there is no way any other team in Europe would be complaining if they were in our shoes , there is no way any team wouldn't wish to be in our Shoes , than why are we complaining us fans ? Is it the fear that we might not be able to win the league again ? Is there a fear of a winner looser mentality in most Inter fans ? Or do we feel our team is so good we can't loose ? Or is the expectation of having Mourinho us a coach is getting too much into us ?.

This question couple with few is what we Inter fans should be asking .
1. I feel even if we don't meet your expectation this year and we just keep this team coupled with some few good signings we would win the league next season , if we should win the league this season there is no way they wouldn't know they would have to wait for another 3 years again , because the whole of Italy knows our dominance us a new team would begin next year and if we should win this year it would be a bonus for our next 3 year dominance , tell me next year Milan would rebuild , next year well Juve would have to rebuild because they bought the wrong players for next year coach which would want his own team , Roma we all know wouldn't build they would still scrap and next year would be difficult and Napoli , Palermo and Sampdoria would over achieved and sell some players 2 would go down and 1 would still be fighting . So there you have it Inter fans , am watching Passion of the Christ now so am being distracted and couldn't conclude well , but my whole point is we have to realize this is a new team and we have even over achieved this season to be frank .
The questions are ask above is for every Inter fan to answer, which of this is our dearest fear ?.

 

[Puma]

Luka, I believe that you and possibly some other posters on here have wrongly perceived the contents of my article and what I have subsequently written.

I raised the prospect of Inter losing the Scudetto because there is a very real chance that we may not be wearing the Scudetto badge next season. Winning the Italian Championship is important because it ensures our place in the Champions League for the following season and for a squad of our capabilities, second, third or fourth would simply be a failure and an embarrassment. I find the suggestion that I would want Inter to fail a little puzzling as I have supported the club for close to 20 years and would really hurt if we lost the Championship.

This in turn leads me to the question you asked about why I do not write articles about Inter winning the Champions League, Scudetto and Coppa Italia. I have had many disappointments in my years as an Inter supporter and this season, despite dominating Serie A, we may well end up trophyless. I have not written about a treble because I do not believe we can win all three trophies. Why? Because in trying to win the Champions League, we have suffered in Serie A and our efforts in the former competition have jeopardised the Scudetto. With regards to the Champions League, in the likelihood we advance past CSKA Moscow, I do not believe we are capable of beating Barcelona who will take care of Arsenal at the Camp Nou. And lastly, if it becomes a struggle between the Champions League and Serie A, we will inevitably forget about the Coppa Italia. The only time the Coppa will become a relevant consideration is if we are knocked out of the Champions League.

With regards to my views on Mourinho, I would just like to say that I have a great deal of respect for him and acknowledge how he has transformed the team. What I do not like is Inter being in the press every other day as a result of comments made about referees, opposition coaches, club directors and club presidents. I understand that Mourinho has a certain style and will not remain quiet for the sake of pleasing the authorities but the handcuff gesture was a careless mistake.

I note Handoyo stated that such a ban was unprecedented and that the rules do not apply to everyone equally but Mourinho, by way of the controversy courted in the weeks prior to the gesture made himself an easy target and when the ban is seen conjunction with what took place in the weeks prior to the match against Sampdoria, the suspension was almost a foregone conclusion. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, Mourinho’s 3 week suspension for the handcuff gesture cost us dearly and it was only until he returned to the bench that the team’s performances improved. The fact that he is no longer talking to the press is a blessing in disguise because it keeps us out of trouble and out of the spotlight.

Given what has happened this season and Mourinho’s present stance in relation to dealing with the press and Italian football in general, it is safe to assume that he is unhappy. Come the end of the season, I believe Inter will be looking for a new coach as I cannot see a way out of the current impasse and Mourinho will not labour under such conditions until the conclusion of his contract. Unless Inter win the Champions League or reach the final, I am sure Mourinho will leave for another club and we will be forced to start over. What most bothers me about our present circumstances is that the position in which we presently find ourselves has been self-inflicted by Mourinho’s attitude and approach to the media and Italian football in general. Unless something dramatically changes before the end of the season, there is a possibility that Mourinho will use the impasse as an exit strategy and Inter will need to look for a new coach. The worst part about this is that the impasse could have been avoided if Mourinho had simply let our football do the talking and not get involved in fights with the media and match officials. Of course, it goes without saying that only time will tell.

For-Real, I acknowledge that Serie A is stronger than in past seasons but your assessment is flawed. The fact that we have a number of new players who form the core of the team is immaterial. I take this view because Inter had amassed an 11 point lead and were coping well in a competitive league. The team lost its focus and we started suffering poor results when Mourinho started speaking out and picking fights with anyone that made a comment in his direction. He was subsequently suspended and the team was without a coach for three weeks. Baresi is a puppet and Mourinho’s comments that it is the players that make the difference on the pitch was simply a smokescreen to direct attention away from his absence on the sidelines and the fact that we dropped vital points as a result of a meaningless gesture that essentially meant nothing.

 

[For-Real]

I have already lost on long piece due to my computer shutting down automatically , am pissed so am going to make this a little shot hopefully .

I take this view because Inter had amassed an 11 point lead and were coping well in a competitive league. The team lost its focus and we started suffering poor results when Mourinho started speaking out and picking fights with anyone that made a comment in his direction. He was subsequently suspended and the team was without a coach for three weeks. Baresi is a puppet and Mourinho’s comments that it is the players that make the difference on the pitch was simply a smokescreen to direct attention away from his absence on the sidelines and the fact that we dropped vital points as a result of a meaningless gesture that essentially meant nothing

In short Mourinho is not the one loosing us the league , i admit i hate his high tone with the press , but that doesn't have anything to do with our performance in the league , we won at Udinese whiles Mourinho was in the stands , we lost to Catania because of Muntari's brilliance , we played 9 men with Sampdoria and we still could have gotten away with a win , we played Palermo 1-1 not because of absense for he was present , we drawed with Bari because of what we all know why , not bad performance but something i wouldn't get into , see there are other factors , why do you choose to ignore them all , at least if there is any defect than it's in your comments , since you choose to close one eye and open the other.
'

This in turn leads me to the question you asked about why I do not write articles about Inter winning the Champions League, Scudetto and Coppa Italia. I have had many disappointments in my years as an Inter supporter  and this season, despite dominating Serie A, we may well end up trophyless. I have not written about a treble because I do not believe we can win all three trophies. Why? Because in trying to win the Champions League, we have suffered in Serie A and our efforts in the former competition have jeopardised the Scudetto. With regards to the Champions League, in the likelihood we advance past CSKA Moscow, I do not believe we are capable of beating Barcelona who will take care of Arsenal at the Camp Nou. And lastly, if it becomes a struggle between the Champions League and Serie A, we will inevitably forget about the Coppa Italia. The only time the Coppa will become a relevant consideration is if we are knocked out of the Champions League

I respect your opinion , atleast you it was the same before the game at Stamford Bridge but don't worry you still celebrated when we won , so i would just wait for us to qualify God bless on Tuesday than wait to play Barce first " We know there is death but we sleep "

For-Real, I acknowledge that Serie A is stronger than in past seasons but your assessment is flawed

First my misperfection of writing is widely acknowledged by even me , but is something am taking steps on to perfect , but for my defect in football are few but not perfect. Do you agree that this team has 5 core member therefore it's in the building process ? . With 3 more players for our bench . Do you know the form it takes into building a squad with 8 new members ?.

I took steps to address how many top European teams are in the " Recycle process " Man U , Madrid , Chelsea and maybe even Barce .
I would make an .eg. out of Barce , this team hasn't changed much just the addition of 2 core members Ibra and Maxwell , Ibra being at Barce has changed everything about Barcelona attacking point , now they have a post player therefore they cross more now and there , more direct passes from Xavi to Ibra from half line position most times . The Bacelona attacking style is different from last year , not their team style of play but their attacking plan , there is a different player with a different attributes .

I also talk about the pedegree of this league now , which you agreed , than i talk of our sloopy moments which i think is due to many factors ( which for you by your opinion the only factor is Mourinho ) i don't agree on that though . It isn't Mourinho fault that we are closer to lossing the league , this is the same Mourinho we had last year , nothing has changed but we won last years league .
So why ? For me it could be any of this factors taking their toll on us

We are building , have 5 core memebers 3 on bench , even 6 us Pendev starts more games now

All it can just be a bad season ,all maybe our time is up this year and we have to go and re-arrange to come back next year .

Maybe is just the Pedegree of the league this season , added to our 5/6 core sqaud members we surely would suffer whether we like it or not .


I don't know what your fear is , but you don't seems to ever want to give up this honneymoon period for our domination in Seria A , but Mr. Puma it's going to happen 1 way or the other , we got to Recycle , am not afraid of what would happen this year , but am more worried about our future , this re-building period would decide our future and i want it to happen , am not afraid of what they would say " They said we won when there is no competition and it won't change for them even if we won this year " so what the fuck lets see this team and lets build for the future . If anyone don't respect building they should ask Madrid and if you do ask Barce, perfect example of a team that has build and now harvesting what they sow , if we fear to loose how can we prepared for the future . All this winner looser mentality isn't helping , any winner whether in business or sports knows sometime you just have to stop to plan whiles others take the lead .

 

[Luka]

I don't know, but lately I've noticed that you became pretty pessimistic Puma. I don't know if my perception is wrong, but that's my feeling. I'm not basing this solely upon this thread, btw.

Anyways, tell me this Puma.

How the media perceived us, how they have spoken about us, when Mancini (who is total opposite to Mourinho, and who "snapped" only couple of times) was our coach, after Calciopoli.

How the situation was different (media wise) to what is it now with Mourinho ?

 

[Suneet]

Yes I feel the same Puma, I can completely understand the fact you dont like Mourinho and I want to respect that. But you seem to find wrong in every single thing.

 

[Luka]

I don't know, but lately I've noticed that you became pretty pessimistic Puma. I don't know if my perception is wrong, but that's my feeling. I'm not basing this solely upon this thread, btw.

And just when I wrote this, I go through the forum, and find this post of yours

Dont count on Inter winning Serie A this season or any other silverware for that matter.

And you write this in a time when Inter is 1 point ahead in Serie A, and when STILL everybody rates our chances higher, bookies are in favour to us, and basicly we have deffinetly better chances to win than second placed Roma.

You just ain't the same man, as when you were a year, two years ago. I don't know what happened. Maybe it is a resenment towards Mourinho, which I can understand somehow. I was at some point very dissapointed in Mancini, to this point I really really hated, whenever I saw him on the bench.

I think you're in similar spot right now, Puma. I might be wrong though.

 

[ElCuchu]

We could write hundreds of pages regarding "Mou&Media".


They both take advantage of each other.

 

[mario.santon]

he made difference to our attitude... Our team plays more consistently and more confident despite opponents.

We came here through a lot of changes...

I can remember our coaches that we have to remember and thank..

1. Hector Cuper, he made us respecting opponents despite being small teams. He brought more stabilty to our team.

2. Zacheroni, despite being here for a short time. He made a good transition from a very defensive team to a team with more attacking mentality.

3. Mancini, he broke our curse and won us scudetti. Aside from that he created an offensive inter... I still remember his nickname back then as Mr X.. but he kept faith in him and he won us trophies.

and now Mourinho.
A modern coach, he understands very well that a team doesn't always fight on the pitch.. But outside the pitch the fierce battles happen... Media war, political war and so on.... Mourinho contributes to the strength of EPL today...
but he has to face the serie A war... which will be the most difficult in his life... But I seriously think he enjoys it.. Until he has enough and take some rest.

 

[Handoyo]

Yep, thanks Zaccheroni. Thanks for Inter - Empoli 0-1, Inter - Brescia 1-3 or something, Inter - Arsenal 1-5, Milan - Inter 3-2 after we lead 0-2, Roma - Inter 4-1.

THANK YOU!