Lautaro Martinez

[forzainter257]

the problem is, stepping up in moments like that is where careers are defined. Its how you go down a legend, or in 10 years time, no one remembers you.

He's failed at those big moments for a while now, and if he wants to achieve his potential, he needs to deliver on them

come on now... Schillaci, James, Goetze played their games of life at the world cups but then disappeared at club level. I don't wish anything bad to Alvarez, but he might follow the same path given how good Halland is at City.

Lautaro stepped up by scoring 3 goals at Copa America and 7 during the WC qualifications, all non-penalty.

 

[Fapuccino]

the problem is, stepping up in moments like that is where careers are defined. Its how you go down a legend, or in 10 years time, no one remembers you.

He's failed at those big moments for a while now, and if he wants to achieve his potential, he needs to deliver on them

To be fair to him, he scored the game winning penalty against Netherlands.

That pressure is insane.

 

[.h.]

To be fair to him, he scored the game winning penalty against Netherlands.

That pressure is insane.

I agree, I'll give him that, but the rest of it has been pretty poor

 

[.h.]

come on now... Schillaci, James, Goetze played their games of life at the world cups but then disappeared at club level. I don't wish anything bad to Alvarez, but he might follow the same path given how good Halland is at City.

Lautaro stepped up by scoring 3 goals at Copa America and 7 during the WC qualifications, all non-penalty.

all against pretty small teams, though. Looking at his wikipedia page, I'd argue the only big team he's ever scored against was Italy - and that's a team that didnt make this world cup

Lautaro Martínez - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He's pretty decent - though quite streaky - against smaller teams, but on the big stage he's really lacking.

3 goals in 20 games in the CL in the last 3 seasons.

 

[Cauet]

France scored their 2nd goal after Messi got dispossessed by Coman

He missed at least 5 chances that a lethal goalscorer scores. 3 v Australia and 2 v France.

 

[.h.]

tbh, what's true is that every good striker will miss sitters - the problem is this world cup he only missed sitters and didnt score anything

 

[K.I.]

France scored their 2nd goal after Messi got dispossessed by Coman

Players around him have to tell him there is a player approaching or behind him.

Messi and would have had more WCs or titles had Higuain did his job, even Palacio missed a sitter as well. The players on a an international level were all garbage playing with Argentina.

I always said Messi is the one who was carrying any Arg team thru the last 10 to 15 years, I give him all the credit and don't put Amy blame on him whatsoever.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Yeah that match was a brainfart by Scaloni. The fuck did he do with the subs (ie. not using them). Team was half-dead at 60 mins, Messi had to try everything to just keep the ball, others didn't run properly anymore.

Wondering if Lautaro was simply not fit to play longer so he used Alvarez for so long (Lautaro admitted earlier in the tournament he has played with injections).

 

[K.I.]

It might be that he was injured and didnt mention on or want it to be known. He was starting many games the last 3 years so that might have been an issue we dont know.

 

[brehme1989]

all against pretty small teams, though. Looking at his wikipedia page, I'd argue the only big team he's ever scored against was Italy - and that's a team that didnt make this world cup

Lautaro Martínez - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You keep saying lots of things about Lautaro.

Care to do this task for Benzema, Kane, Higuain, Aguero and our very own Lukaku?

He's pretty decent - though quite streaky - against smaller teams, but on the big stage he's really lacking.

3 goals in 20 games in the CL in the last 3 seasons.

Hmm, how about you compare Lautaro's total tally with similar styled players that played for teams with similar level and/or similar progress in the tournament instead of making some filter out of nowhere?

The likes of Cavani, Aubameyang etc from recent ones? Or maybe Carlos Tevez who barely had a goal in the tournament yet rocked hard when they reached the CL final, which just shows how important playing for a strong team is.

 

[wera]

Yeah that match was a brainfart by Scaloni. The fuck did he do with the subs (ie. not using them). Team was half-dead at 60 mins, Messi had to try everything to just keep the ball, others didn't run properly anymore.

Wondering if Lautaro was simply not fit to play longer so he used Alvarez for so long (Lautaro admitted earlier in the tournament he has played with injections).

I think Scaloni was being cautious, believing there is a big chance the game goes to extra 30 minutes. At the moment, yeah, it was weird, but ultimately, his decisions still brought the WC title.

 

[.h.]

You keep saying lots of things about Lautaro.

Care to do this task for Benzema, Kane, Higuain, Aguero and our very own Lukaku?



Hmm, how about you compare Lautaro's total tally with similar styled players that played for teams with similar level and/or similar progress in the tournament instead of making some filter out of nowhere?

The likes of Cavani, Aubameyang etc from recent ones? Or maybe Carlos Tevez who barely had a goal in the tournament yet rocked hard when they reached the CL final, which just shows how important playing for a strong team is.

That's a fair challenge, lets do it!

Harry Kane - last 2 seasons of CL, he played I think 9 games and scored 3 goals.

Lukaku, last 3 seasons of CL - 17 appearances, 9 goals

Giroud - 10 goals in the last 19 CL appearances

Ronaldo - 14 goals in 21 games in the last 3 CL seasons


If I look at transfermarket, the list of most expensive strikers, Lautaro is 5th in the world - so lets compare the top 10



Erling Haaland - last 3.5 seasons, he's scored 20 goals in 17 games, with international goals against Sweden, Serbia, Netherlands on 'comparable or better' teams at the international level
Mbappe - last 3.5 seasons, he's scored 26 goals in 34 games, plenty of big international goals, dont think we need to go into that
Harry Kane - last 3.5 seasons includes a spell in the Europa League, but as I posted above, I think the metric for him is 3 in 9. International goals include 2 at the World Cup, and goals in competition against Germany, as well as quite a few goals in final stage tournaments (eg Euro 2020, 18 World Cup, etc)
Vlahovic obviously has documented issues at Juve - he's scored 2 in 7 games in the CL, and scored at the Fifa 2022 World Cup
Gabi Jesus - he's scoored a couple at the 2019 Copa America, but while at City, he scored 12 in 23 in the CL
Darwin Nunez - he's much 'newer' on the scene in some ways, but he's scored 9 in the last 16 in the CL
Osimhen - interestingly, he's only ever scored one goal in a friendly at international level, the other 14 have all come in competitive games. In the last 3.5 seasons, he's scored 3 in 8 in the CL, Napoli obviously played in the Europa League twice while he's been there

Lukaku I posted above, so wont repeat, hi international goals have come in competitive games generally, with 4 goals in the Fifa 2018 world cup, 4 at Euro 2020, 2 at Euro 16, 1 in 2014 World Cup, etc
Aleksandr Isak has not played in the CL in the last 3.5 seasons unfortunately


Lautaro - to stress again - 3 goals in the last 20 appearances in the CL, going up to 10 in the last 31 if you include 19/20 season on his stats. International goals have basically been 2019 and 2021 copa america as well as WC qualifying.


Now, yes, I know, Lautaro hasnt been our main goalscoring outlet in recent seasons until at least Lukaku left - but this is all good context. I think against that 'cohort' posted above, he's performed below everyone except Isak, I'd argue. Yes, they're in different teams, playing different football, etc, but as a peer group, the other footballers who are 'rated' to the same price as him is a good starting point.



Aubameyang, his career record is 38 CL games, with 17 goals scored.

Cavani - I think he was 55 goals in 94 games but I cant be bothered to check all of those seasons were the CL. I think they were.

 

[brehme1989]

That's not the challenge... You did everything upside down lol

 

[.h.]

You asked about Aubameyang and Cavani, I posted them. I also compared to Lukaku, and Kane, as requested, and it struck me to look at other strikers in our comparable teams (Milan and Juve).

Then I decided to look at the top 10 strikers in the world by valuation - a list which includes Lautaro.

If anything, I've gone above and beyond. I'd argue by all 3 measures, Lautaro looks significantly poorer. I would agree 100% that in some of the data, he was the 'second striker' for Inter, but at the same time, that excuse is kinda gone now.

 

[brehme1989]

You asked about Aubameyang and Cavani, I posted them. I also compared to Lukaku, and Kane, as requested, and it struck me to look at other strikers in our comparable teams (Milan and Juve).

Then I decided to look at the top 10 strikers in the world by valuation - a list which includes Lautaro.

If anything, I've gone above and beyond. I'd argue by all 3 measures, Lautaro looks significantly poorer. I would agree 100% that in some of the data, he was the 'second striker' for Inter, but at the same time, that excuse is kinda gone now.

The top comment was about international goals and the opposition they came against.

CL comparisons between contenders' forwards, or box strikers is just unfair.

You keep saying last 20 games, yet he rarely played the entire game.

Wanna see something interesting about his CL goals?
Completing the full game as a starter:
7 goals in 10 games

 

[.h.]

That's a pretty artificial and hand picked stat. But you raise a good point, lets look at goals per minute

Lautaro is 250 minutes per goal in the CL
Harry Kane is 125 minutes per goal in the CL
Aub is 156m/goal
Giroud is 134m/goal
Tevez is 236m/goal

Lets look at those top 10 strikers in the world


Haaland - 61m/goal
Mbappe - 116m/goal
Vlahovic - 295m/goal (note only 2 goals so very low statistics)
Gabi Jesus - 110m/goal
Darwin Nunez - 99m/goal
Osimhen - 206m/goal
Lukaku - 151m/goal
Isak has 8 min in the CL so hard to calculate obviously


I think that says plenty, tbh. By any reasonable comparison against his peer group, he performs SIGNIFICANTLY worse. (Obviously there's, as mentioned, context around this in terms of leading goal scorers for their teams, etc, but the point I'm trying to make is Martinez needs to step up, especially on the biggest stages. He's pretty good in the league, aside from being streaky, against smaller teams, but where it matters like the CL, the world cup, etc, the last 2-3 seasons have been VERY poor for him. Considering his performances when we won the league, I think we were all hoping he'd develop from that, rather than regress)

 

[brehme1989]

Again, you're comparing very different things.

Giroud, Aubameyang etc all they did was get a final touch in the box.
Lautaro plays much deeper than that.

Then you're comparing him with players of teams that played full offense with much possession and lots of quality chances. We're not doing that. And we've established that Lautaro rarely plays the full 90 minutes so even if that was the case for Inter, he wouldn't benefit once weaker teams are worn off.

You cannot compare City's or recent PSG's striker with him and he's not a main scorer to begin with. Tevez is the best counterexample and yet his stats were piss poor until Juventus reached the final. Why? Because he played for a better team that had success, that's how this relationship works unless you're an abnormal entity like Haaland.


All I know is that Lautaro scored against Liverpool and Real Madrid away with the Inter shirt where even ourselves didn't think it was possible to get a goal in either pitch.

And he's been a catalyst in making this Argentina team a winner, since the Copa America. Same with Inter.
If all you care about is some stat line, you're going to be disappointed by him. And by 99,9999% of football players. Stick to watching the game and the players themselves.
Lautaro's entry enabled Argentina to win the Final. He missed a ton of chances but he was also there to make them happen. They weren't doing any of that till he came on.

 

[.h.]

and yet to many people he was the worst argentinian player of the final

Mac Allister your star man in World Cup final

How you rated the players as Argentina beat France 4-2 on penalties at the end of one of the most dramatic World Cup finals.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[brehme1989]

Same guys who voted Macalister as best player?

Who cares what people think anyway? If that shot before Messi's goal went in, he'd be voted in the top 3 no matter what. People care about goals only, so who cares?
The Macalister vote is funny coz he has a Scottish name, had a decent game (for once), had an assist and they know him from PL.

De Paul, Messi and Di Maria were the three best players with the keeper also saving their asses i the final minute.

 

[Adriano@10]

and yet to many people he was the worst argentinian player of the final

Mac Allister your star man in World Cup final

How you rated the players as Argentina beat France 4-2 on penalties at the end of one of the most dramatic World Cup finals.

www.bbc.co.uk

People who watch the worldcup and know shit about football.....