Yann Sommer

[brehme1989]

Handa in his prime is not in any way significantly better than Sommer in his prime. Why can't they both coexist as very good goalkeepers in their prime? While I don't see Handanović as world class, that doesn't mean I never thought he was a very good goalkeeper. Sommer is the same to me. A dependable goalkeeper that could've had a more trophy filled career if he went to the right club. Sommer's quality is dismissed for no apparent reason.

Because Sommer was at best a top 10 keeper in his best ever season which coincided with some traditionally better keepers not having great seasons, whereas Handanovic is one of the top 10 Serie A keepers ever and potentially a top 30 keeper of all time...

And you're acting as if he's one of the top 30 keepers of his time alone!

 

[Nothing]

Imo prime Handa was way better than any gk i ever watched for years like Julio Cesar, Toldo, Peruzzi, Casillas and Buffon. Too bad he was mostly playing in our dark years if only we were competing in CL when he was still young, he would make a big move like Onana. He's criminally underrated.

 

[wera]

Yeah Handa wasn't better than prime Casillias. Nah. Nope. No way. Altho there could be a case that Handa's prime lasted longer than Casillias', Casillias was being a factor against any club/NT team in his prime before the Mourinho years. He has more clean sheets for Spain NT than goals conceded for fucks sake.

Casillias was in the thick of superstar games since 19 years old and he deserved to be there and share that stage. He wasn't world class all the time, but in the 2000's, he most assuredly was. Easier to say Casillias was absolutely better in his prime than Handa than saying Handa was absolutely better in his prime than Sommer.

 

[brehme1989]

Yeah Handa wasn't better than prime Casillias. Nah. Nope. No way.

Dude, Casillas was above average - with some epic days - and only played at Real Madrid due to internal politics. He was better than Valdes obviously, but he wasn't special.

They wanted to get rid of him 5 times as crazy as that sounds but were stopped to avoid civil war. Mourinho was the only one with guts to make the decision.

No chance Handanovic was inferior to Casillas. You're overrating 10 nights of Casillas' career and underrating 10 years of Handanovic's career...

Altho there could be a case that Handa's prime lasted longer than Casillias', Casillias was being a factor against any club/NT team in his prime before the Mourinho years. He has more clean sheets for Spain NT than goals conceded for fucks sake.

Yeah, works well when you have 80% of the ball possession.

Casillias was in the thick of superstar games since 19 years old and he deserved to be there and share that stage. He wasn't world class all the time, but in the 2000's, he most assuredly was. Easier to say Casillias was absolutely better in his prime than Handa than saying Handa was absolutely better in his prime than Sommer.

Feel free to ask the Real Madrid directors and coaches during the 2000s on their opinion on that.

I too believe that Casillas was one of the best in the 2000s, don't get me wrong. But there's a lot in the background and he may have been just another Pepe Reina if someone else had it his way with Iker.


There's a reason his top level career ended so fast at a young age. And there's also a reason why Real Madrid never made it past the round of 16 until Mourinho arrived when Casillas was one of the remaining star players.

 

[IM21]

did I really just read that Sommer is/was just as good as prime Handanovic?... Wera, please tell me the location is Slovenia where you're buying these drugs, i want some.

 

[Il Drago]

did I really just read that Sommer is/was just as good as prime Handanovic?... Wera, please tell me the location is Slovenia where you're buying these drugs, i want some.

As a Slovenian, i am curious about your opinion on the other debate that was briefly mentioned. Prime Handa vs Prime Oblak. Who do you pick?

 

[Nothing]

Dude, Casillas was above average - with some epic days - and only played at Real Madrid due to internal politics. He was better than Valdes obviously, but he wasn't special.

They wanted to get rid of him 5 times as crazy as that sounds but were stopped to avoid civil war. Mourinho was the only one with guts to make the decision.

No chance Handanovic was inferior to Casillas. You're overrating 10 nights of Casillas' career and underrating 10 years of Handanovic's career...



Yeah, works well when you have 80% of the ball possession.



Feel free to ask the Real Madrid directors and coaches during the 2000s on their opinion on that.

I too believe that Casillas was one of the best in the 2000s, don't get me wrong. But there's a lot in the background and he may have been just another Pepe Reina if someone else had it his way with Iker.


There's a reason his top level career ended so fast at a young age. And there's also a reason why Real Madrid never made it past the round of 16 until Mourinho arrived when Casillas was one of the remaining star players.

To me Casillas was Raul version of gk nothing special about them. They were just lucky having world class teammates around them.

 

[brehme1989]

As a Slovenian, i am curious about your opinion on the other debate that was briefly mentioned. Prime Handa vs Prime Oblak. Who do you pick?

wera definitely has some personal beef with Handanovic or something, I wouldn't trust him on this one

To me Casillas was Raul version of gk nothing special about them. They were just lucky having world class teammates around them.

Raul was world class in his prime.

And Casillas had world class attributes, which gave the impression that he was indeed world class.

I mean, you could say that about Ivan Campo, Raul Bravo, Michel Salgado, Francisco Pavon, Javier Portillo and Borja Fernandez, but obviously Raul and Casillas were class players.

 

[Il Drago]

wera definitely has some personal beef with Handanovic or something, I wouldn't trust him on this one


Raul was world class in his prime.

And Casillas had world class attributes, which gave the impression that he was indeed world class.

I mean, you could say that about Ivan Campo, Raul Bravo, Michel Salgado, Francisco Pavon, Javier Portillo and Borja Fernandez, but obviously Raul and Casillas were class players.

And that's why i wanted to ask @IM21 Just forgot to tag him

 

[Meysam]

To me, Casillias was much better than Handa and between Prime handa and Sommor I go with handa.

 

[NimAraya]

To me watermelon is better than banana and banana better than apple.

 

[wera]

I find it funny how even when I say Handa was very good, I am still branded a hater

 

[Adriano@10]

I find it funny how even when I say Handa was very good, I am still branded a hater

Well mainly cause you think sommer is on handas level when compared in their prime which just is not the case...

ALso side note i m not saying he was better than casillas Courtois Degea neuer i m saying he was on the same level as they were and sommer simply never was on the level of the absolute elite.
Wether you put him top 3 or 5 in any given season mostly come down to preferences but he sure as shit deserves a mention in that categorie...



Anyways we re gonna disagree on this.. You re never gonna convince me sommer is on the level that handa was as i watched somer for most of his career and he simply was not imho...

Just like i m not gonna convince you handa was absolute WC in his prime and i m sure you watched most of handas careeer...

 

[RickyMaravilla'sRightFoot]

I like Sommer but I doubt he was ever even at Samir’s Udinese level.

 

[wera]

Ah, the curse of not being in a bigger club strikes again.

 

[brehme1989]

Ah, the curse of not being in a bigger club strikes again.

Don't think that's valid overall. That's a new wave situation. There's definitely a tendency now, but it wasn't the case always.

Don't think anyone claims that Zico is a fraud because he barely played for Udinese and some Japanese team apart from Flamengo. He's still considered a top 5-10 Brazilian ever.


As with goalkeepers, the issue there is that eventually a great goalkeeper will end up at a top team.
And if he's not that great, he won't stick around. First example in mind is Rustu Recber post WC2022 at Barcelona. And yeah, GK spot are very limited and exclusive. And this is why.

There are also cases like Valdes where the team can just get by without having to spend on a keeper for various reasons, so during their best years, some top GK could have made a name for himself at Barcelona or somewhere else (domino effect), but Valdes was holding up a roster spot until they lost Mascherano and Puyol and realized that they needed someone who could be above average.

Thomas Ravelli and Michel Preud'Homme. Rinat Dasayev. All these are considered some of the best GKs of their generation (80s, 90s)
They didn't play for top teams as you would perceive them today.


If you think of the top 15 goalkeepers now, you would say that at least 13 of them play for top 15-20 teams, no?
Eventually the other two will join top 15 sides, unless they're Brazilian who don't want to cross the Atlantic or they play for their favorite team that just doesn't rise above a certain level.

The other thing is that any GK can look good at a given day. Anyone can have a great international tournament.
You're looking for consistency though. Lots of people fall under the impression that a GK is great because their limited exposure to them allows them to make that assumption.

There are very slim margins.

Edouard Mendy for example made everyone think he was a top GK. He wasn't. He just was part of a well oiled machine at Chelsea and made some good saves in the process.
Ranking players is an absurd Americanism, but arguably Mendy was a top 50 GK at the time, but his exposure in CL and the PL made people think that he was top 10 or better at the time.
So while you're right that big team "curse" may be a think when it comes to legacy and public awareness, the same can be applied to Handanovic.
If the CL was exposed to him during 2011-2017, they'd be calling him one of the best ever, not just one of the best of the tournament.

 

[varmin]

I didn't watch prime Sommer, but I would definitely pick up prime Handanovic over this version of Sommer. Saying that, I'd take Sommer now over current Handanovic.

I still miss Onana's ball control while we were under pressure.

 

[wera]

and his forward passes, those helped a lot in derbies and CL matches

I'm just happy Inter's goalkeeper is good enough. Now just if some players would wake up, we'd be cruising in Serie A, but it seems that will not happen. Dimarco, Barella, Bastoni seem too moody.

 

[IM21]

As a Slovenian, i am curious about your opinion on the other debate that was briefly mentioned. Prime Handa vs Prime Oblak. Who do you pick?

very good question and a pretty hard one, as I think their peak was kinda similar. Oblak did/is play with great a defensive team, so that helped a lot, but he also is capable of making some quick reflex saves. I think both of them are pretty weak at coming out for the ball on corners, or in general average with high balls in their area... Handa did improve his feet game, but that was at the end of his career, but still, Oblak has none of that. Handa was also a beast on penalties in his prime, while Oblak actually ain't bad at facing them, but Handa was just a top tier penalty saver, what I can't say about Oblak yet. It also seems Oblak has declined in the last 2 seasons, especially the last one. Idk if it was the injuries or what, but he did have some weird errors. This year he does look fine again, so perhaps it was just a bad season for him last year... Anyway, if I had a 25 year old Handa and Oblak, I'd pick Handa, as I beleive he's just a little better. And he's also taller, so that helps a little.

 

[OkiOki]

Very important save tonight. If that Cristante shot get in. We would be fucked up hrd.