The Suning Commerce Group

[diamen]

it seems like it's the matter of politics and tensions between UK and China:
https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/premier-league-china-tv-rights-pptv-suning

Suning denied not paying Jiangsu players:
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-09/02/c_139336652.htm

 

[.h.]

Hmm.

good shout, though I'm not 100% convinced - as non-payment dates back to March, which predates SOME of the issues at least.

We'll see. I think its extremely unlikely that they are doing another Enron, but even if its a 1% chance we should mention the possibility

 

[nurko]

Well if that's true then we'll we're on a roll both with coaches and owners. Time for New Year New Me - Inter style.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Fucking cheap fucks. Pay up or get some more sponsorships to Inter. We're not going anywhere with this fucking sell first, then buy strategy.

 

[Luka]

Cafe, so do you concede now that there is another possibility of that "shifting strategy" that apparently happened?

I'm not trying to be mean. You are sensible guy, I'm sure you've realized now that the two can not be true at the same time. If we have to sell first, there is no way we had money for Tonali and maybe we were dragging, hoping we will cash in on someone, but Tonalli and Brescia could not wait longer. Or we have the money, Conte forced his way, but then we should expect some other major signing without the need to sell.

True?

 

[CafeCordoba]

No. It's definitely not binary.

Tonali would have cost is only 2m€ book value for the first year (10m€ loan fee). We pay him 2.5m€ net salary, equaling around 5m€ gross. That's 7.6m€ hit for this year. We are about to sign Vidal soon, that's 6m€ net salary (+ bonuses apparently). Kolarov will make 3m€ net (+ 1m€ transfer fee since only year contract). Tonali wouldn't have cost us THIS YEAR anymore than these too. I don't buy it at all that it would have been pure cashflow problem (it was only 10m€).

I agree that we did not buy him because we wanted to sell someone first and asked them to wait (Tonali didn't want to as he got an opportunity). But that includes that we COULD have bought him with the formula we already agreed with Cellino. But Conte's preferences of these more seasoned veterans override.

We were after Tonali for months, same applies to Kumbulla. I refuse to believe that Marotta and co did all that work just to suddenly realize after the season that we don't have money to buy these players and just dropped the ball at the dying seconds. Like I said, it's not binary, this or that. Money was surely an issue with the decision but Conte's preferences override and we didn't finish Tonali purchase because of that. Decisions had to be made and they made this decision.

 

[.h.]

RE Tonali I dont know if thats true - as its only a one year 'transfer', you probably write down all 10m in one season FWIW.

 

[CafeCordoba]

RE Tonali I dont know if thats true - as its only a one year 'transfer', you probably write down all 10m in one season FWIW.

But why would it make any sense to do that loan + obligation deal then? Huge amortization hit. Then it could be done with normal transfer and spread the payments for multiple years (like they usually do anyway). I don't see much benefits doing it with loan + option/obligation then.

The contract is still signed for 5 years despite it's a loan. I'm pretty sure it can be done with spreading. When the loan ends and the player is not redeemed, then the loan fee comes to the books fully. If the player is redeemed, the rest of the transfer fee is added to the book value and spread over the remaining years.

 

[.h.]

TBH, I think its a cashflow thing. It allows us to not pay entirely for the guy up front, but Brescia still know they're gonna get all the money they expect.

Considering we are still losing money every season, I think we are still cashflow negative as well as FFP negative

 

[CafeCordoba]

But that can be handled with installments anyway, like it's done with normal transfers.

 

[CafeCordoba]

And EVEN IF we had to take that 10m€ book value 100% to our books, it would still be 15m€. We are using that amount to Vidal, Kolarov and Darmian's salaries. I'm not saying getting Tonali would equal getting those three, but that's the point what I've been saying, we shifted our priorities.

I'm totally sure if Conte hadn't got his will, we would have signed Tonali after the season ended.

 

[.h.]

tbh I reckon what happened is that we were banking on revenue from JM/Perisic/plusvalenza from Dalbert, and none of it has come through.

I suspect we were waiting to get some proper cashflow in before making a move for tonali, but the window has obviously passed

 

[brehme1989]

Nothing of the sort is related. It's a clear strategic decision.

We spent 45m on Hakimi during the Covid situation. Our financial position is actually good enough despite Covid and our existing costs.

What happened is that Suning has found an excuse to not spend much which probably will eventually backfire, at least in Tonali's case.

Conte is staying despite threatening to leave, with his 11m salary sticking around. What they are doing now is essentially telling the coach you're not going to have a substantial spending back we will bring you some veterans to add depth and get a championship run. And this is what is being done now.

Targets like Arturo Vidal, Aleks Kolarov, Matteo Darmian (longtime fetish of Inter, Marotta and Conte all alike).

They have planned some sales but our players aren't willing to leave so it will be hard.

The initial plan was to get Hakimi, Tonali, a backup/rotation striker and a left wing back. Kumbulla was also a target but with the emergence of Bastoni I'm not sure if we'd really go for him.

At least we're not going to burn money for the long term as we initially intended with Conte at the helm. It's probably an arrangement between Conte and Suning that this season he has to win the league otherwise he'll walk by summer 2021. I guess if we succeed, he probably gets a raise and more say in the transfer market, but that remains to be seen.

And this change gives us time to try and sell players and provides a clean slate in 2022 when the vast majority of these guys will be out, including the potential new additions. It won't be cheap, but it'll be cheaper than going for a couple more Dalbert and Lazaro deals.

 

[.h.]

OK Boomer

 

[brehme1989]

Ha, I see your ridiculousness has hit all time levels now with a new signature...

Maybe I'll sport your last post where you said that Italy does better when they have harsh foreigner restrictions

But since you have no clue of what you're talking about regarding Conte and his 4-4-2 love:
https://readchelsea.com/2016/07/21/why-antonio-contes-4-2-4-could-be-so-effective-at-chelsea/
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/10...m-isnt-a-4-2-4-but-still-provides-excitement/7
https://www.football-italia.net/74179/conte-how-italy-went-4-2-4 <<I used it at Bari and Siena, winning the Serie B titles. I wanted to do it at Juventus too, but didn’t have the players suited to this tactic.>> Gobbo di merda
https://www.footballparadise.com/antonio-conte-the-philosophy-of-work/
https://www.sportifico.com/profeed/665-3-4-3-from-pozzo-and-chapman-to-conte-and-muslin/ <<because the idea in my mind was that I wanted to play with the 4-2-4, and then we switched with 4-3-3 and we played also in the same way like last year, 4-2-3-1>>


Please tell us more about how Conte and Suning did not switch strategies but it was all because we have gone bankrupt...

 

[.h.]

Edit:

Not worth it, decided to take some advice I got pm'd and acutally ignore the person who has been on my ignore list for 3 years. Quote in signature is hilariously ridiculous and I think it stands for itself nicely.

 

[Harpsabu]

Nothing of the sort is related. It's a clear strategic decision.

We spent 45m on Hakimi during the Covid situation. Our financial position is actually good enough despite Covid and our existing costs.

What happened is that Suning has found an excuse to not spend much which probably will eventually backfire, at least in Tonali's case.

Conte is staying despite threatening to leave, with his 11m salary sticking around. What they are doing now is essentially telling the coach you're not going to have a substantial spending back we will bring you some veterans to add depth and get a championship run. And this is what is being done now.

Targets like Arturo Vidal, Aleks Kolarov, Matteo Darmian (longtime fetish of Inter, Marotta and Conte all alike).

They have planned some sales but our players aren't willing to leave so it will be hard.

The initial plan was to get Hakimi, Tonali, a backup/rotation striker and a left wing back. Kumbulla was also a target but with the emergence of Bastoni I'm not sure if we'd really go for him.

At least we're not going to burn money for the long term as we initially intended with Conte at the helm. It's probably an arrangement between Conte and Suning that this season he has to win the league otherwise he'll walk by summer 2021. I guess if we succeed, he probably gets a raise and more say in the transfer market, but that remains to be seen.

And this change gives us time to try and sell players and provides a clean slate in 2022 when the vast majority of these guys will be out, including the potential new additions. It won't be cheap, but it'll be cheaper than going for a couple more Dalbert and Lazaro deals.

This is all speculation. I mean one of the main outcomes was conte won't be pressured to win the league this season with the rumoured thought being we can't afford to invest so I just don't know where you get your conclusion from?
I think it's obvious we are waiting for sales. Cafe earlier I think it was listed our squad and we have something like 34 players on the books right now. It's clear we need to sell first.

 

[Luka]

No. It's definitely not binary.

Tonali would have cost is only 2m€ book value for the first year (10m€ loan fee). We pay him 2.5m€ net salary, equaling around 5m€ gross. That's 7.6m€ hit for this year. We are about to sign Vidal soon, that's 6m€ net salary (+ bonuses apparently). Kolarov will make 3m€ net (+ 1m€ transfer fee since only year contract). Tonali wouldn't have cost us THIS YEAR anymore than these too. I don't buy it at all that it would have been pure cashflow problem (it was only 10m€).

I agree that we did not buy him because we wanted to sell someone first and asked them to wait (Tonali didn't want to as he got an opportunity). But that includes that we COULD have bought him with the formula we already agreed with Cellino. But Conte's preferences of these more seasoned veterans override.

We were after Tonali for months, same applies to Kumbulla. I refuse to believe that Marotta and co did all that work just to suddenly realize after the season that we don't have money to buy these players and just dropped the ball at the dying seconds. Like I said, it's not binary, this or that. Money was surely an issue with the decision but Conte's preferences override and we didn't finish Tonali purchase because of that. Decisions had to be made and they made this decision.

Or maybe we were banking on those sales whole we made those moves on Tonali and Kumbula? If we did not have the money we couldn't wait till we sell because at that time it might be over, so we took the shot.

Btw in your calculations we get only 1 player with Tonali and 2 without. Even if we took Tonali, we would still need that second player which was Kumbula apparently. You add him app and the costs do not look as fancy.

I think you are defending the case which, as I stated from the beginning, might not look like many here thinks. But due to some narrative media took they believed them. Conte is not a guy who loves veterans, but he is also no Wenger to only coach 18 year olds. He wanted Lukaku, no 33 year old guy, he plays Bastoni a lot, Barbella, Sensi, Martinez. I don't hear him wanting to get rid of them.

Let's agree it's not so crystal clear as everybody was making it to be a week ago. Otherwise we saved a lot of cash and there should be some major swoop coming.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Yes it's definitely not crystal clear. I didn't understand earlier we won't have ANY funds after Hakimi. That we need to self-finance our mercato completely. Brehme's speculation makes sense to me, or at least it's credible. We all speculate here so it's a bit useless to point out if someone is stating their speculation.

If the target is just Scudetto, then fine. We can cope with these players. If we want more, Zhang needs to show us the money.

 

[Luka]

That was my whole point ever since those stories stated to propagate in the media. We all speculate, but media are the worst in that.

I've said from the beginning, nobody knew shit what was going on with Conte, with this meeting and what was decided.

It was just ridiculous to me, that everybody knew perfectly what happened because it was "obvious" that Conte got his way and everybody bent over. As it's becoming clearer and clearer with every day, it was not and we still have no idea what's going on.