Rodrigo De Paul

[CoolMan44]

you are lying, they both spent only 1 season for Sampdoria.

How is he lying? Icardi was with Sampdoria in Serie B, not sure if half a season or one.

Skriniar also was in Sampdoria for more than a season, I believe 1.5 years.

 

[CafeCordoba]

I don't believe that theory is good one. I think the staying mediocrity has more to do with the individual and his characteristics as a person than the environment automatically turning him into it.

 

[forzainter257]

How is he lying? Icardi was with Sampdoria in Serie B, not sure if half a season or one.
Skriniar also was in Sampdoria for more than a season, I believe 1.5 years.

Skriniar started playing for Sampdoria's main team from May 2016. Ok it's not that critical, 1 season or 2, they were both young and as I previously mentioned in other thread, footballers generally establish themselves (in terms of physical, technical and mental attributes) until 24. What you get till that age is what you are going to be for the rest of your career, it may either decline or slightly go up, it will depend on your attitude. Both Skriniar and Icardi joined us at what age? 21-22? I don't remember and they didn't spend much seasons in lower clubs, therefore didn't absorb that midtable team mentality. Same goes for Barella, if he doesn't join big club at the end of this season, chances he will succeed later will drop. I don't think Berardi can be good for us or bilan, rube now, he will probably be good for Lazio. Maybe that's why Antonio Di Natale hesitated joining big club? Of course there are players who play great for big clubs no matter what teams he played for previously. Maybe James Milner can be example who was good at Man City having previously played for the likes of New Castle, Aston Villa. I think he has that resolute character what made him successful. But there are too few players who have that strong character. It also depends on the club's tolerance for players who do not meet the expectations on their first season. Also it depends on manager too, for example Jose Mourinho is a great motivator.
Anyway, my idea about signing players from serie A smaller clubs is only when following conditions are met:
1) he is younger than 23 and spent for smaller clubs not more than 3 full seasons, ideally to sign them right after 1 great season (like Skriniar)
2) he is older than 23 and he played one great season in serie A's small club.
3) any age, not older than 30 who previously played for big club in serie A.

This observation doesn't apply for players joining from other leagues. Why? because there are a lot of factors that affect player's performance and you all know them.

 

[brehme1989]

I don't believe that theory is good one. I think the staying mediocrity has more to do with the individual and his characteristics as a person than the environment automatically turning him into it.

He has a point but he's using a terrible way to bring it out.

 

[ElDuccio]

De Paul trequartista, Lautaro and Icardi striker. Trio argentina de maravilla, like the gold old days. With Crespo, Cruz (then Milito, Palacio...) and of course other argentinian players...

 

[chipschups]

Did people never know about "late bloomer"? There is player who is under radar for many years and then pop off outtanowhere.

 

[forzainter257]

I didn't say De Paul is finished as a player, he can become legendary like Di Natale. I said he might have problems with handling big club's pressure since he grew up as a player of a small club.

 

[brehme1989]

I didn't say De Paul is finished as a player, he can become legendary like Di Natale. I said he might have problems with handling big club's pressure since he grew up as a player of a small club.

He grew up at Racing, one of the big 5 of Argentine football. He was part of a shit season and he left just before they won the league - when they signed Diego Milito back - but you cannot say that he grew up as a player of a small club.

He also returned to them on loan after the case and featured in the Copa Libertadores. I'm sure Valencia fans would love to have him now, he was unlucky to be there in the Gary Neville period.

 

[forzainter257]

He grew up at Racing, one of the big 5 of Argentine football. He was part of a shit season and he left just before they won the league - when they signed Diego Milito back - but you cannot say that he grew up as a player of a small club.

He also returned to them on loan after the case and featured in the Copa Libertadores. I'm sure Valencia fans would love to have him now, he was unlucky to be there in the Gary Neville period.

You didn't read my previous posts carefully and yet you blame me for bringing my point in a terrible way. By the way, I know you are capable of writing posts excellently, so I would appreciate your way of delivering the idea I am intending to explain here.

Ok, from my observation, when we sign players who spent 3-4 seasons for small clubs of Serie A or mid table clubs, they usually flop when they play for Inter. For instance: Mudingayi, Kharja, Dambrosio, Vecino, Valero and etc.. Whereas when we sign players immediately after we saw them spending their first season at one of Serie A's small clubs at a high level they usually play at Inter greatly too. Ex: Icardi, Skriniar. Potentially Barella. So I am talking about players within Serie A. Why? Because when they play 3-4 or more seasons for a small club in serie A, they get adapted to local football under small club's conditions (less pressure, smaller objectives, minor criticism and so on). Therefore they may not maintain same level when they transfer to a big club where they will have to face with harder conditions. Rodrigo is already 24 and has spent his last 3 seasons for Udinese, where he got completely adapted to Serie A under Udinese's conditions. He would be able to maintain his performance if he got transferred for example to Samdoria or Genoa, Atalanta, but may struggle at a big club, especially at Inter where everybody is so impatient.

 

[brehme1989]

Now this was better. But I disagree with you about the Serie A part. It doesn't matter. The same applies with importing players from other leagues. Ones that aren't in title challenging situations will have the same experiences as the Serie A non-contenders. In some countries it's even less pressure and they're happy being 2nd. You could go case by case when it's from other leagues of course, but all I'm saying is that championship contention experience matters no matter what the place is.

Also, it doesn't matter how long you stay there. And another issue is that personality matters. Think Barzagli for example. Never really challenged a real trophy in his life [just some mickey mouse Lega Pro cups] and then he moved to Germany, won with Wolfsburg, came back to Italy and was part of an elite defense line at Juventus. By your flow of thought, Barzagli should have been a failure at Juventus.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Btw, looked De Paul in this Sampdoria match and didn't look like a 30m€ player AT ALL.

Yeah, not fair with this one match sample size but I'm just saying.

 

[wera]

The De Paul transfer isn't yet confirmed, right?

Right??

 

[CafeCordoba]

Of course not

It's for the summer and of course it's only rumors still.

 

[Il Drago]

The De Paul transfer isn't yet confirmed, right?

Right??

It depends on whixh source you choose to believe. According to Pedulla and FCIN, there's an agreement between Inter and Udinese. According to Di Marzio, there's an interest from Inter for De Paul but there's no agreement yet. Up to you who you're gonna believe.

Anyway, my opinion about De Paul is that his recent underperforming has to do with the tactical choices of the Udinese new coach. Under Velasquez De Paul was mostly playing in the wing and that's where he had his best games. On the other hand, the new coach has changed the system from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 and he mostly plays De Paul as an ss which doesn't suit him.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, looked De Paul in this Sampdoria match and didn't look like a 30m€ player AT ALL.

Yeah, not fair with this one match sample size but I'm just saying.

He was invisible in our match as well.

 

[andrei]

You didn't read my previous posts carefully and yet you blame me for bringing my point in a terrible way. By the way, I know you are capable of writing posts excellently, so I would appreciate your way of delivering the idea I am intending to explain here.

Ok, from my observation, when we sign players who spent 3-4 seasons for small clubs of Serie A or mid table clubs, they usually flop when they play for Inter. For instance: Mudingayi, Kharja, Dambrosio, Vecino, Valero and etc.. Whereas when we sign players immediately after we saw them spending their first season at one of Serie A's small clubs at a high level they usually play at Inter greatly too. Ex: Icardi, Skriniar. Potentially Barella. So I am talking about players within Serie A. Why? Because when they play 3-4 or more seasons for a small club in serie A, they get adapted to local football under small club's conditions (less pressure, smaller objectives, minor criticism and so on). Therefore they may not maintain same level when they transfer to a big club where they will have to face with harder conditions. Rodrigo is already 24 and has spent his last 3 seasons for Udinese, where he got completely adapted to Serie A under Udinese's conditions. He would be able to maintain his performance if he got transferred for example to Samdoria or Genoa, Atalanta, but may struggle at a big club, especially at Inter where everybody is so impatient.

We shouldn't be signing players who spent more than a year in a midtable team. Their mentality absorbs mediocrity to the bones and they will not be able to handle the pressure of playing for a big team.

That was your quote and I said it was one of the most retarded thing I read here. I will not start giving examples with a player or another.
In your next posts you tried to elaborate it and you made some good observations, though debatable, but good observations.
At the end, as other said, the most important factor is how a player adapted mentally to the new challenge. It depends of players ability to adapt to the increased pressure and not because "he absorbs mediocrity in his bones". And you are right, if a player stay too long in a mediocre, low pressure team, it will be harder for him to adapt to a contender. Berardi indeed in the best example. he should have gone to a good team few years ago. With Barella also, you are right.
But at the end, every transfer must be evaluated individually and not overwhelmingly after general criteria.

 

[MusicalMafia]

you are lying, they both spent only 1 season for Sampdoria.

So you just called me a lier for pointing out that they both spent more than a season, which is true as Icardi was there for 2 and Skriniar 1.5. Bravo, you surely did your homework.

Then, to prove your point, you add that by BEING you actually mean PLAYING and it only applies for a limited time under certain age. Bravo again.

Anyways, you have a list of players that suceeded and dont fit this model, an example being Handa but also, considering you seem to treat Lazio as an example of midtable team, De Vrij.

I'm sorry man but you're defending something that just didn'tt make much sense in the first place and now calling people names instead of admitting you generalised your idea too much.

 

[SiamoNoi]

On Monday morning Inter will meet with Udinese over Rodrigo de Paul, who they are looking to bring in next summer. However, if Perisic leaves in January they could advance on him sooner. There is already competition for de Paul, with Napoli offering €30 million plus Younes to Udinese, and with Carlo Ancelotti pushing for the player.

 

[forzainter257]

Now this was better. But I disagree with you about the Serie A part. It doesn't matter. The same applies with importing players from other leagues. Ones that aren't in title challenging situations will have the same experiences as the Serie A non-contenders. In some countries it's even less pressure and they're happy being 2nd. You could go case by case when it's from other leagues of course, but all I'm saying is that championship contention experience matters no matter what the place is.

I didn't understand the bold part, I guess you meant Serie A contenders. If yes, have to disagree and here is why:

When you import a player from another league it mostly depends on his adaptability, character and etc. I think everyone agree that these factors are the ones that influence "imported" player's performance the most. Are you agree if I say they don't understand the feeling of playing for a big club (specifically of serie A) until they really get transferred to one? They know that Inter, bilan, rube are big clubs, but they don't know them from the inside. I think yes, ok let's imagine two scenarios for that player "imported" from another league:
1) gets signed by a midtable or lower club
2) gets signed directly to one of three serie A giants.
In both cases it mostly depends on his adaptability, character i.e. personality whether he becomes successful or not. Agree?
Let's suppose he overcomes that period of adaptation and then spends 2-3-4 seasons for the club. He completely understands Italian football, media, fans, whole system. But how do you think his mentality will change during his career in serie A if:
- he played for midtable or lower club
- he played for a big club?
Are you agree that in the first case he would be dealing with less stress, pressure, expectations, criticism and thus becoming less ambitious? Note he already spent 4 seasons for that small club dealing with above mentioned factors all the way through under that small club's conditions. He got used to that and it's already his comfort zone. Agree? Now imagine he is signed by rube, bilan or us where everything is one level above. He has successfully adapted to Serie A, so he will not have problems with understanding the italian football. But what makes him flop? He has been playing very good scoring left and right for a small club but when transferred to a serie A giant he all of a sudden becomes crap. Why? because he developed that small clubs mentality during previous 4 years and now he has to fight with that mentality, he will need 2-3 seasons more in order to train that big club's mentality. You can see that from DDA's career, having spent 4 seasons for Torino he gets transferred to Inter at the age of 26. He was utter shit for the first 3 seasons, but last 2 seasons he was playing more or less regularly. He finally adapted to big club's expectations, his meat become immune to criticism and now he is playing better and better. That's why below mentioned Barzagli blossomed late previously being crap most of his career. His mentality was developing gradually - Chievo -> Palermo -> Wolfsburg -> rube. He wasn't monster in his first seasons for rube, was he? I don't remember.

What if that "imported" player joined serie A giant immediately, without bypassing through a small club? He is not injured, he is having his chances but somehow flops. The reason is he had adaptation problems - obvious as day light, right? On the other hand, if he has very good characteristic skills he will most probably succeed right away. He will be playing regularly, sometimes will be having bad days and he will be facing with media criticism. He will be handling pressure hardly, easily but somehow will learn dealing with. He will spend 3-4 seasons at that big club having to deal with all the difficulties each season in and out, he will finally get fully adapted to Serie A football (whole system) under big club's conditions. He is mentally prepared to fight for scudetto, he knows what media will be writing about him as soon as he starts playing bad, he knows how fans will be reacting to that. Because he in football meaning was growing up in Italy as a big club's player. That's why I am afraid De Paul might have already built in him that small club's mentality, because he already spent 3 seasons for Udinese. We should have signed him after his first season at Udinese like we did with Icardi and Skriniar. bilan signed Pyontek just in right time and I firmly believe they finally signed the right forward. I think he will shine for them unless something crazy doesn't happen.

Also, it doesn't matter how long you stay there. And another issue is that personality matters. Think Barzagli for example. Never really challenged a real trophy in his life [just some mickey mouse Lega Pro cups] and then he moved to Germany, won with Wolfsburg, came back to Italy and was part of an elite defense line at Juventus. By your flow of thought, Barzagli should have been a failure at Juventus.

Had Barzagli been signed by rube right after his Palermo seasons he would most probably fail there and get offloaded as soon as possible. He changed the league which made him completely refresh his idea about serie A when he came back. That's why I am underlining that my observations are bound to one league. Also, as I said above, he has been growing gradually by changing teams from worst to better. Though still wasn't impressive in his first seasons at rube. Wasn't he? I think you are overrating him, he is tactically very good, he may win balls thanks to better positioning or win aerials, but he is and been super slow most of the time. Maybe rube's overall defending tactics made him look that good.

Not to you brehme:
sorry finally had time to sit and right more in details. I didn't expect I will get picked on for my words and had to be very accurate about numbers. Seriously, some people here are counting it 2 seasons when the player had only 1 half ass match played in one season, that's ridiculous guys. Also when you just belong to a club and don't play it means you are not taking part in club's objectives, you are not being criticised by media, you are not being booed by fans, thus your mentality is not affected

 

[Il Drago]

Fabrizio Romano:

Exclusive: Inter want De Paul immediately in case of Perisic's departure

Rodrigo De Paul already in January. Inter are making various assessments these days amid Ivan Perisic's desire to leave the club. At the moment, there is no right proposal for the Croatian and the idea remains not to sell the player unless a definitive offer of at least 35/40 million euros arrives.

However, if Perisic leaves from now until January 31, the latest idea of the Nerazzurri, in addition to Carrasco, on the list of Ausilio and Marotta, leads exactly to the purchase of Rodrigo De Paul already this month.

Today the management of the club will have direct contact with Udinese to seek an agreement on the De Paul front. Booking the player for the summer is the priority but now even an immediate purchase is a hypothesis, though it seems that it will be complicated for Udinese to let De Paul go, as the club is fully involved in the fight for salvation.

But Inter is also trying to involve vice president Javier Zanetti in the transfer. The former captain has already spoken with De Paul and has convinced the player to choose Inter rather than other destinations, mainly Napoli, who had an offer of 30 million plus Younes ready for Udinese.

Now, a definitive economic agreement must be found for the Argentinian's move, either now or in June. De Paul's transfer in January will only depend on Ivan Perisic, while the principal idea is to close a deal for next summer, so as to avoid surprises.

https://www.calciomercato.com/en/news/exclusive-inter-want-de-paul-immediately-in-case-of-perisic-s-de-18681?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=account&utm_campaign=autopost

 

[CafeCordoba]

De Paul 'offered to Tottenham'

https://www.football-italia.net/133907/de-paul-offered-tottenham

Haha wtf? Some Pozzo's failed trick?