Milan - Inter

[Marco The Butcher]

Im late as usual and that was due to the problems in the forum. I liked the match and it wasnt boring, just missing the goals. Our keeper and defense were the best depts and thats it. We should have scored a couple but they also had their chances. Bring on Lecce, I'm very happy because we didnt let in a goal for the 2nd time now in months (this and against Bremen). I am very optimistic and I feel that we will do well against Lecce. If Adi is tired then I'm sure Martins, Cruz and VDM will finish off the job.

 

[Bianconeri]

Han, a very good post indeed. :thumbsup:

And yeah, we have to think the positive aspects. It was a draw against the mighty Milan, to which we have lost for couple of years every time (Euro-derby was a defeat). And at least we grabbed the clean sheet, not bad at all considering our opponent.

but I can't believe that some of you claim that you deserved to win the match... But anyway, I'm happy that you grabbed a draw, but I still would have prefferred you to win...

 

[snake]

Han, a very good post indeed. :thumbsup:

And yeah, we have to think the positive aspects. It was a draw against the mighty Milan, to which we have lost for couple of years every time (Euro-derby was a defeat). And at least we grabbed the clean sheet, not bad at all considering our opponent.

but I can't believe that some of you claim that you deserved to win the match... But anyway, I'm happy that you grabbed a draw, but I still would have prefferred you to win...

you spend more time on tihs forum then other people do
man just admit secretly u want inter to win everything :dielaugh:

 

[Johnny Ludlow]

I have to disagree with you guys. I honestly don't want Ronaldinho all that much. There is a slight chance he would make it, but probably he would just be OK. Now I'm going to discuss the reasons for my claim.

The comparison to Kaka is in fact excellent way to see my point. Kaka is all about efficiency. He is tall, strong, fast, has a great shot and he can get past players, yet, he hardly ever entertains. His technique is'nt flashy, it's efficient. Same can be said about Totti, Stankovic and Nedved. These are the kind of attacking midfielders who suit to Serie A, you need dymanism, aggression and fast efficient decisions. Players like Deco and Valeron certainly are not like Ronaldinho, but still they have one thing incommon; they both need time and space to really have an impact. Even Zidane struggled in Italy. And please, don't argue me if you never saw him play in Serie A. Ofcourse he was'nt bad, he was quite good, but he was'nt the player he was for les bleus and still is for Real Madrid. This would be the case with Ronaldinho, but in his case, the talent he possesses would be even more compromised by the way football is played in Italy than Zidanes. National teams games are in my opinion well suited for really skillful players. There it's not about great team defending and about tactics. It's about individuals. Like in Spain, with national teams there is room and time to show all the skill one has.

Don't get me wrong, Ronaldinho is just exceptional, but his style will hardly change. Had he come to Italy when he was 18, he probably would have adapted well for Italian style but now I believe it's too late. I challenge you to name a player who has similar charasteristics than Ronaldinho who have done really well in Italy in the recent years. Even if he is the best in what he does, I don't think it's enough. In Italy it's all about modern attacking midfielders like I mentioned earlier. Whatever I say, I probably never get you guys convinced about this. I just see a huge difference between la Liga and Serie A, and my hunch says he would be just 'quite good' in Serie A, nothing more. It certainly is NOT a coincidence that 'old fashioned' players like Deco, Valeron, Zidane and Ronaldinho all play in Spain.

One player I believe would had great future in Serie A is Luis Gonzales from River Plate and Argentina, I watched him play in Copa America and in the Olympic Games and I'm convinced he is the kind of player I would want to see at Inter.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Gismo]

You´re right that Serie A and La Liga are very different. Spanish spectators want results AND entertainment. Italians mostly settle for just results. Hence Serie A is tougher and less offensive.

Does this mean Ronaldinho wouldn´t shine? Well nobody would know for sure. But I can´t see one single thing preventing him from doing so. This is the kind of player who will always find a way. One way or another he will always possess a threat be it dribbling players, assisting teammates or scoring himself. Furthermore he works so much defencevely that Serie A would actually be good for him in this aspect.

A truly magnificent player such as Ronaldinho won´t be troubled much by less space. Why? Because he will simply create the space for himself... I know Maradona had great success in Italy even though that was long ago. I assume Ronaldo too was amazing in season 97/98. Kaka although not on the same level is doing very well. Why wouldn´t Ronaldinho? Same level as Maradona and the old Ronaldo... And surely better than Kaka!

 

[Handoyo]

It's all really very hypothetical here and we can't really say if Ronaldinho's better than Kaka. What prove do you have to back you up? It's just opinions. And I certainly agree with Johnny Ludlow's post, although Gismo has named 2 players, namely Ronaldo and Maradona, who succeeded in Serie A despite of all their flairs. I can perhaps add Cassano there, although he's been struggling this season.


Handyo

 

[Johnny Ludlow]

You´re right that Serie A and La Liga are very different. Spanish spectators want results AND entertainment. Italians mostly settle for just results. Hence Serie A is tougher and less offensive.

Does this mean Ronaldinho wouldn´t shine? Well nobody would know for sure. But I can´t see one single thing preventing him from doing so. This is the kind of player who will always find a way. One way or another he will always possess a threat be it dribbling players, assisting teammates or scoring himself. Furthermore he works so much defencevely that Serie A would actually be good for him in this aspect.

A truly magnificent player such as Ronaldinho won´t be troubled much by less space. Why? Because he will simply create the space for himself... I know Maradona had great success in Italy even though that was long ago. I assume Ronaldo too was amazing in season 97/98. Kaka although not on the same level is doing very well. Why wouldn´t Ronaldinho? Same level as Maradona and the old Ronaldo... And surely better than Kaka!

Saying Ronaldinho works very much defensively is just not true. And comparing Maradona and the old Ronaldo to Ronaldinho is strange. Maradona and Ronaldo meant business, they both were real killers. Even if they were a joy to watch, they did'nt do anything just to please the crowd or have some fun. You say Kaka is not on the same level and that Ronaldinho is a truly great and that's why he would do great in Italy. That's not fair. You can't just say he is truly great player, and thus justifying your opinion that he would be great in Italy. I see that as circular logic because I think he has to show his worth outside the national team and la Liga before we can call him great. It is logical that the best attacking players has to face the best defensive players in the world to show their worth. If you agree with me that great player has to have success against the best defenders, to me you seem to say: he is great because I believe he would do great in Italy.

To soften my post a little bit, I want to say that he obviously is one of the best players in the world at the moment, but if, like it would be natural with his talents, he would like to become one of the legends of all times, he would have to show his efficiency against the very best. And I don't believe he would succeed in this in Serie A. I say it again; he would not suck, but he would not be even near the player he is in la Liga. I rate Totti and Nedved higher that Ronaldinho.

 

[Gismo]

Just look at Ronaldinho´s magic and look at Kaka´s. Compare the two magicians performances!! It´s crystal clear to me, the former is just better.

And I´d say it´s even easy/obvious to see who´s better.

I rate Totti and Nedved higher that Ronaldinho.

With that stance I´m not even going to bother explaining why Ronaldinho is better...

Saying Ronaldinho works very much defensively is just not true.

Well, I don´t know how much you´ve seen of him. But he´s very complete in the sense that he does work a lot defencevely. He´s not Davids or anything but like Totti and Raul I admire his workrate too. You don´t see many Brazilians working so much either. I challenge you to find one...

 

[Handoyo]

Why look at his magic? We have been saying all along that Ronaldinho is over-rated and judged by many because he seems to be able tricks that Kaka can't, or possibly prefer not to, do. This, by all means, doesn't mean that the former is better than the latter. Football is not a circus and entertainment. It's about efficiency and results. I didn't see any magic from Kaka in the Derby but he totally destroyed our defence, costing us 4 yellow cards. If football is about magic and tricks, the Brazillians would truly rule the world.


Handyo

 

[Gismo]

I agree 100% Han. Because only by essentially realizing the magnificence of Ronaldinho you understand how great he is. Kaka and Ronaldinho both have their best qualities in their magic. Hence you need to compare their performances on the pitch.

Contrary to what some people argue Ronaldinho by no means is just a flashy player. One could have a look at what impact he´s had on Barca. He is just so good that sometimes it seems he´s just playing with the opponents when in reality he is trying to create a chance or score himself.

Assists and goals are coming out the ying-yang from him. It´s just amazing.

 

[INTER_FAN]

Saying Ronaldinho works very much defensively is just not true. And comparing Maradona and the old Ronaldo to Ronaldinho is strange. Maradona and Ronaldo meant business, they both were real killers. Even if they were a joy to watch, they did'nt do anything just to please the crowd or have some fun. You say Kaka is not on the same level and that Ronaldinho is a truly great and that's why he would do great in Italy. That's not fair. You can't just say he is truly great player, and thus justifying your opinion that he would be great in Italy. I see that as circular logic because I think he has to show his worth outside the national team and la Liga before we can call him great. It is logical that the best attacking players has to face the best defensive players in the world to show their worth. If you agree with me that great player has to have success against the best defenders, to me you seem to say: he is great because I believe he would do great in Italy.

To soften my post a little bit, I want to say that he obviously is one of the best players in the world at the moment, but if, like it would be natural with his talents, he would like to become one of the legends of all times, he would have to show his efficiency against the very best. And I don't believe he would succeed in this in Serie A. I say it again; he would not suck, but he would not be even near the player he is in la Liga. I rate Totti and Nedved higher that Ronaldinho.

I am the one wh brought up the subject and the reason for that cause Barca is the only team I try to watch regularly after INTER of course. And I agree on:

1- Serie A is not La Liga, its easier for offensive players but its not that easy too. Don’t forget the results between the big clubs of the two leagues.

But talking about efficiency, It seems you don’t watch Ronaldinho or Barca at all, cause since he came last year, they moved from 9-11 place to finish 2nd with the best run in the 2nd half of the season, same coach, same players, only Ronaldinho and Davids were new additions.

Watching Barca this season, even in their game vs. Milan, if they have Adriano or Ronaldo on their side, Milan wont get the 3 points and would be considered lucky to leave with 1, they hit the bar twice, com’on Ronaldinho is flashy but so efficient and effective too.

Kaka is great but Ronaldinho is smarter dealing with defences, his FK are amazing, he does score too, and for sure he creates a headache for every defence, look at the link I posted it earlier, yesterday I watched that game, he is amazing, assisted with the first goal from a wonderful long distance pass (Veron style). Assisted in the 2nd goal so they got the penalty and he scored it, the third goal he was out, and not to mention couple of clear chances he made but the front line couldn’t capitalize on,

One thing for sure doesn’t lack is efficiency, and being flashy is not a crime, he has a natural talent and every football fan loves to watch such player.

Don’t u love him when he teases the defences and bring them closer and closer to make mistakes.

I will take him in a heart beat in Mancio squad cause our style of play would fit him greatly, and Adriano and Vieri will shine even more with such midfielder creating space and chances for them.

 

[Gismo]

I don´t wanna doubt your credibility of how much you´ve seen of Ronaldinho, Han and Johnny. You can judge him yourself. But calling him flashy is right, because he is. He´s bloody class. But where I dare to disagree is when you doubt his efficiency. The facts speak for themselves... It´s up to us fans to decide how to value these facts in forming our opinions. You have your view, I have mine. Difference between us is that my opinion makes sense, your´s don´t.

 

[Johnny Ludlow]

You don't seem to be answering to the points that matter here, and those that are under discussion. We ALL know how good he has been in la liga, and we all know how skillful he is. So it's not essential to talk about how good he has been in Barca over and over again, and talk about his magic. Yes, I admire his magic too. We are talking about him hypothetically joining Inter. I believe we would see alot more of the Ronaldinho we saw at Giuseppe Meazza week ago if he would move to Italy: Nothing concrete. You just seem to ignore me when I say I think he would not be as good in Italy than Nedved or Totti, I think this is not a stupid thing to say, so don't just ignore me, that's the worst way of behaving in an argument. BTW, that's just silly when you say Kakas best quality is his magic. This obviously is not the case, atleast in my opinion, and I have seen him alot!

I am not being biased here because I really do like the guy, more than for example Totti and Nedved. I just try to use all the understanding I have about players, leagues and football in general, and my conclusion is that he would not rule the Serie A.

 

[Gismo]

And my conclusion is that he would rule. We could go on forever about this. I never ignored you, it´s just hard for me to try and convince you of Ronaldinho´s class and ability to shine everywhere when you rate Nedved and Totti over him... I even explained why I think Ronaldinho would still shine in Serie A. I´ll gladly repeat myself since I admire your passion. So here we go:

Assists and goals are coming out the ying-yang from him. It´s just amazing.

This would continue in Serie A because:

This is the kind of player who will always find a way. One way or another he will always possess a threat be it dribbling players, assisting teammates or scoring himself.

And he would fit Serie A too because:

Furthermore he works so much defencevely that Serie A would actually be good for him in this aspect.

Want me to bring more points?

 

[Johnny Ludlow]

So, with those arguments you think you have won or something?

Well, again you make the same mistake by saying that he just is the kind of player who does this and this and this. Sure for example Mateja Kezman scored 30 goals a season in Holland, would it be smart to say that he just is the kind of player who shines where ever he goes and scores goals against anybody. I don't think it would.

The situation is so hypothetical that we should'nt get too passionate about this. And saying that my opinion does'nt make sense is quite questionable for you did'nt have any reason to say that. I never said he is'nt class and really efficient in la liga.

Would I not make sense if I told you Mateja Kezman will never rule Premiership? The principle is same in both cases, you are just telling that he would do same things in Italy, and if I don't agree I am not making sense. Oh come on!

 

[Johnny Ludlow]

I have never ever used this much time writing to a forum, I really should read to the exam I have tomorrow and I even have to watch the Lecce match today! This only means that this argument stimulated me, that is certainly a good thing.

I am not saying you were wrong, ofcourse not, just that your arguments were not legitime when you categorically said that he would do the same in Italy. Also, saying I don't make sense because I disagree is not right. In all the other ways it was a nice argument. Now lets focus on the Lecce match mates.

Now I really have to leave

 

[Gismo]

Good luck with your exams and always nice debating with ya.

I´m saying I would be hugely surprised if Ronaldinho wouldn´t shine everywhere. Not that my words are the truth.

Let me rephrase: It doesn´t make sense to ME.

It doesn´t make sense comparing those two situations either. Despite being more "free" La Liga is not much easier than Serie A like the Dutch League is to EPL.

Who cares about winning anything? I´ve reluctantly tried to explain to you why your argument doesn´t make sense to me. It´s really an underestimation of Ronaldinho to say he wouldn´t shine everywhere if you ask me.

Your theory might work with other players. Actually I´m sure it does. But saying Ronaldinho wouldn´t make it big everywhere doesn´t make sense in it self.

I´ve made many points to try and convince you that there would be no big problem. I failed...

 

[Frisko]

I haven't seen that much of Ronaldinho, but what I think is that he's a more spectacular player than Kaka', but Kaka' is a better overall player, and a better team-player.

 

[Fabio]

Overall match rating -

Player performances - 7/10

They gave their all but it still wasn't enough

Team entertainment - 6/10

Nothing to extraordinary but still solid

Fabio 2

 

[Handoyo]

Enough of Kaka - Ronaldinho for me, I just wanna pointed out that Mancini keep mentioning that Nesta - Stam are the only 2 who can stopped Adriano at the moment when it was Nesta - Maldini who stopped him.


Handyo