Marcus Thuram

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But then how can you measure a player's potential IQ?
If it were that easy we wouldn't have players flopping. As you mentioned Coutinho and Dybala have struggled, even Aguero and Griezmann have in certain situations. The latter three struggled because they have to share or sacrifice their preferred space/role with a better player. But in ideal situations they excel. Ditto, Coutinho but to me he is mentally weak and not suited to Barca-ball. This is different from what I'm saying with Thuram, he doesn't have the skill set to excel in the striker role, whether he's sharing the pitch with Ronaldo or as a #10/star player on a mid-table team. Competent defenders will easily read his movements and quickly snuff out any perceived threat. Maybe he could've learned how at a younger age, but again i think it's congenital, it's why when start out playing we start to drift to certain roles where we feel comfortable. Why does he drift to left often and why do we think we can suddenly change that?

How would you rate Lautaro's IQ in his first season here? I remember him looked slow, weak, rash and didn't know anything other than shoot.
inexperience and over-eagerness. Toro just needs to compose himself and his game will improve (and it has)

Or Brozovic, what kind of performance could we expect of him when Spaletti moved him to regista given his perceived low IQ at the time?
Brozovic is not a high IQ player too me. Players like Jorginho and Fabregas are levels above him in terms of reading the game and making the right decision. In the regista role he has more space and time to do his thing. He basically excels because of his work ethic and support play.

And if IQ is real, is it transferable to other positions on the pitch or is it specific to some styles of play?
Of course it's real. Have you played 11 a side football? Basically knowing what to do and when, some it you learn but a lot of it is instinctive. It's about timing, awareness and execution, you'll get a slow ass player like Lampard who'll know what to do and when, then you'll have a Guarin just running around doing nothing. Castaignos vs Henry. Quaresma vs Beckham. There are countless examples. Call it a 6th sense if you will, players who in a matter of seconds can see the play unfolding and execute. On the other end of the spectrum you have athletic players, again, who just run around doing nothing, and I fear Thuram is of the latter.
 

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Meh, this sounds like EQ where people try to attribute everything and anything positive to EQ and dismiss the arguments against it to other factors, despite academic research has failed to define EQ let alone quantify it.

If a player makes mistakes, how do you know it’s because of his IQ or he’s mentally weak, or he can’t adapt to new environment…? We don’t know but football IQ advocates will attribute the success cases to IQ and other cases to something else.

And how the hell could you compare the talent of Castaignos with that of Henry?
 
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Meh, this sounds like EQ where people try to attribute everything and anything positive to EQ and dismiss the arguments against it to other factors, despite academic research has failed to define EQ let alone quantify it.
the research is there, there're even companies who specialize in measuring or enhancing this "sixth sense". You refuse to see it but what Cambiasso as previous poster mentioned? Not the strongest or fastest but one of the best out there because of his high-level IQ. Jorginho, Kante, Kroos etc.

And how the hell could you compare the talent of Castaignos with that of Henry?
He was dubbed as such from a very young age because of his playstyle (and to up his transfer price). Unfortunately his legs were faster than his thought process and he was an epic fail
 

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Football brain IQ or not, Thuram 1cm taller than Lukaku. I know who I'll choose!!

Bring him IN!!

New milanisti nightmare.
 

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If he can recieve a pass and pass the ball without any problems then he should be automatically better than Lukaku? :yao:
 
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If it were that easy we wouldn't have players flopping. As you mentioned Coutinho and Dybala have struggled, even Aguero and Griezmann have in certain situations. The latter three struggled because they have to share or sacrifice their preferred space/role with a better player. But in ideal situations they excel. Ditto, Coutinho but to me he is mentally weak and not suited to Barca-ball. This is different from what I'm saying with Thuram, he doesn't have the skill set to excel in the striker role, whether he's sharing the pitch with Ronaldo or as a #10/star player on a mid-table team. Competent defenders will easily read his movements and quickly snuff out any perceived threat. Maybe he could've learned how at a younger age, but again i think it's congenital, it's why when start out playing we start to drift to certain roles where we feel comfortable. Why does he drift to left often and why do we think we can suddenly change that?

inexperience and over-eagerness. Toro just needs to compose himself and his game will improve (and it has)

Brozovic is not a high IQ player too me. Players like Jorginho and Fabregas are levels above him in terms of reading the game and making the right decision. In the regista role he has more space and time to do his thing. He basically excels because of his work ethic and support play.

Of course it's real. Have you played 11 a side football? Basically knowing what to do and when, some it you learn but a lot of it is instinctive. It's about timing, awareness and execution, you'll get a slow ass player like Lampard who'll know what to do and when, then you'll have a Guarin just running around doing nothing. Castaignos vs Henry. Quaresma vs Beckham. There are countless examples. Call it a 6th sense if you will, players who in a matter of seconds can see the play unfolding and execute. On the other end of the spectrum you have athletic players, again, who just run around doing nothing, and I fear Thuram is of the latter.
I beg to differ. Footballing IQ is one of Thuram's biggest strengths. He is very good at shielding the ball with his technique and draw a lot of fouls. Something that Lukaku never can. How you watch Thuram and comparing him with Guarin is beyond me.

The problem with Thuram is that he is easy to be provoked, loses his head, and does stupid things afterward. But that's something that could be learned. Don't forget that he is the same age as Lautaro.

Regarding the comparison with Lautaro, I even argue that the Argentine's footballing IQ is lower. He still usually focuses too much on the ball makes terrible decisions all the time, ignoring his teammates. Hopefully, Thuram comes here and you would be very surprised.
 

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Footballing IQ is one of Thuram's biggest strengths. He is very good at shielding the ball with his technique and draw a lot of fouls. Something that Lukaku never can.
I'm referring to IQ in the penalty area, in terms of positioning, movement, when to shoot, when to pass, etc, these are split second decisions I feel are inherent, not learned or taught, but honed. Thuram doesn't score high in this area.

How you watch Thuram and comparing him with Guarin is beyond me.
I didn't. I'm giving examples of low IQ midfielder in Guarin versus high IQ midfielder in Lampard. So in this instance, Thuram as a striker would be the "Guarin" versus the "Lampard" player we would need to replace Lukaku.

Regarding the comparison with Lautaro, I even argue that the Argentine's footballing IQ is lower. He still usually focuses too much on the ball makes terrible decisions all the time, ignoring his teammates.
Agree with this. That's why the Aguero comparisons never made sense to me. Toro as it as his best at the end of a cross or pass, facing the goal, he knows how to move and create space for himself and take the shot. The issue is his finishing where he is often too rash, but i put this down to youthful exuberance.
 

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Football IQ is such a terrible concept. I remember a few years ago, when Messi was still at his peak physically, and he made all sorts of terrible decisions. Like he would decide to cut inside from the right, drew 4 players with him and took on another 3, instead of passing to Dani Alves who would be completely unmarked in wide area. I don't know in what world it would be considered high IQ to play that way, but since it was Messi, he would make it work and he would be praised. I also remember n4l called out Messi many times while people defended him.

This one example is just to show why I feel football IQ is a whole lot of everything and nothing at the same time.
 

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Football IQ is such a terrible concept. I remember a few years ago, when Messi was still at his peak physically, and he made all sorts of terrible decisions. Like he would decide to cut inside from the right, drew 4 players with him and took on another 3, instead of passing to Dani Alves who would be completely unmarked in wide area. I don't know in what world it would be considered high IQ to play that way, but since it was Messi, he would make it work and he would be praised. I also remember n4l called out Messi many times while people defended him.

This one example is just to show why I feel football IQ is a whole lot of everything and nothing at the same time.

This is why my little personal observations post didn't touch on these things. Five people can have five totally different opinions when it comes to players on some of those more intangible qualities, be it decision-making, technique, ability to time their runs, whether they're playing too wide/centrally for their given position...all sorts of things. I feel equal parts not-qualified to talk about those kinds of things as well as that, as I said, someone else could watch a random sampling of Thuram's games from the last two seasons and have a totally different idea of the kind of player they think he is, and their opinion would be just as valid, as far as I'm concerned.

Those vague, intangible-related talking points can make for great discussion, but odds are you won't find much consensus most of the time. There's so many football leagues, football clubs...even the most devoted football fan only has time for so much.
 

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DiMarzio - Gladbach has lowered their demand to around 25M. Before going all in on Thuram Inter want to see if Lazio lowers the 40M price of Correa.
Inter want to have the second attacker by Friday.
 

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Those vague, intangible-related talking points can make for great discussion, but odds are you won't find much consensus most of the time.
I think consensus can be reached when you regularly watch a player, i mean most of us can agree that Dalbert and G5 are not too bright (low IQ), Vecino is reckless, Kaku isn't a big game player, Handa is not the best leader, Bastoni has a good temperament, etc.

His ball control looked on point, played some nice 1-2 too. Not sure why people say he's clumsy.
You can't make that call based on a handful of games. Imagine watching Lautoro 3/4 games and coming to a conclusion. Agree about the one touch passing, not always accurate or well-timed, but he's good at those. I'd like to reiterate that I don't think Thuram is a bad player, I just think he is not and will ever be, an Inter-level player. This signing only makes sense if personally requested by Inzaghi to make his tactics click (ala Conte/Lukaku) but that isn't the case here. We're buying him because we think he's a young Lukaku-lite and a future top class player. And that's a "hell naw" for me. Think about how many hopeful, "next-big thing" signings we've made, from Dalmat to Castaignos to Kondogbia to Lazaro, only a very small handful of those gambles have proven worth the hype, in fact most have flopped spectacularly. In some cases it's not even their fault, it's the environment at the club which for a number of reasons is not conducive for nurturing young talents.
I'm basically of the view that at this juncture we should play it safe until our finances are sorted out. When we're in a surplus and trophy laden, then we can go all in for such a player.

DiMarzio - Gladbach has lowered their demand to around 25M. Before going all in on Thuram Inter want to see if Lazio lowers the 40M price of Correa.
Inter want to have the second attacker by Friday.
Does it not bother anyone that Gladbach are willing to let their #10 go without a fuss? Again, for me the time-tested strategy for a successful transfer from BLiga: if Bayern and Dortmund have not expressed serious interest in player A, then in all likelihood player A is not worth our time. And it's a fact both clubs need a left winger slash forward.
 

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Count me in on the hype train, I am optimistic of him joining and becoming a beast. Don't ask why, I don't know, just a typical fan blindness thing.
 
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gds - Inter offered 20.5M + bonuses, but Gladbach still want 30M. Bonuses and the will of Thuram if he wants to leave will be decisive.
 
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