Lippi coaching Italy, the end of a dream...

[Frisko]

Thanks Marco, hardly anyone agree with me around here hehe

 

[Gaetan]

Nightmare??? Lippi, alongside with Capello, has been Italy's most successful coach in the past decade. Just because he had a shambolic season with Juve doesn't mean that he's turned bad. I'm happy that Lippi got the post actually. Coaches don't get worse through age, like players. But, Trap is an exception.


Handyo

I was about to jump on your back with your theory of how coaches don't get worst and being successfull in the past automatically earns you praise for getting a job now, but you're lucky you made sure to exclude Trap.

The only worry I have for Lippi is that if his head is still stuck in the past

I don't worry about the young talents getting a chance to play at all. Right now, the Italian media is gonna put so much pressure on Lippi to be fair in his squad selection that he won't be able to pull out of his ass calling Del Piero and Vieri despite their age and form. I think it'll be a new era, in which Lippi will be forced to rely on experience but add in a dose of fresh young players.

Guys like Cassano, Ferrari, De Rossi are all gonna be in the 2006 squad so we might as well start the project now. I don't see the point in bringing back the guys who have done squat for the nazionale, and that includes Alex to our very own Vieri. Sure, he was good in World Cup 98 and 2002 but he isn't half the player he used to be it seems.

Juve may have a poor defensive record last season. But Lippi will now have the talents of Nesta, Cannavaro, Matrix and Ferarri in his hands now.

Juve's defense is horrendous, not even god himself would be able to shape them up. I watched the Gobbi play a friendly match vs PSG today and if they had any decent strikers they would have bagged a couple of gols, and lucky them that Buffon is cool under pressure and knows when to get off his line and attack the ball.

Lippi is a genius, his records speak for themselves. I have faith in him, as of right now there's absolutely no reason to believe he'll harm Italia.

 

[Frisko]

[Lippi is a genius, his records speak for themselves. I have faith in him, as of right now there's absolutely no reason to believe he'll harm Italia.

Right, let's talk about Lippi's record then. He won a scudetto in 98 with the kind help of Mr Ceccarini. We gifted him another one 2 years ago. He's been an absolute disaster in Europe, he won 1 Champions League on penalties against Ajax, he lost 3, the one with Milan on penalties but playing a disastrous game, or should I say NOT playing at all? He also managed to lose a Uefa cup to Parma.

You said no-one could make Juve's defence work last year. Well Lippi had the complete trust of Moggi, so he got what he asked. Lippi asked for Le Grottaglie and thought that Montero and Ferrara were still good players.

Le Grottaglie had a dreadful season, how come Lippi never played Iuliano? The guy is no Nesta, but who can be worse than the infamous Montero-Le Grottaglie pair?

I'm telling you, Lippi can't bring anything good to the national team. We will keep playing like we have since I can remember, defence defence defence, long balls to the big centre forward. All the good feet on the pitch won't be used. Apparently it's too risky to put 5 or 6 consecutive passes togheter, it's better to throw the ball long and hope for the best :wallbang:

 

[Gaetan]

Right, let's talk about Lippi's record then. He won a scudetto in 98 with the kind help of Mr Ceccarini. We gifted him another one 2 years ago. He's been an absolute disaster in Europe, he won 1 Champions League on penalties against Ajax, he lost 3, the one with Milan on penalties but playing a disastrous game, or should I say NOT playing at all? He also managed to lose a Uefa cup to Parma.

You said no-one could make Juve's defence work last year. Well Lippi had the complete trust of Moggi, so he got what he asked. Lippi asked for Le Grottaglie and thought that Montero and Ferrara were still good players.

There is absolutely no valid point that you or anyone else could come up with to diss a coach's record when he has won 6 scudetto's and a Champions League. You must acknowledge that in order to be lucky you must have a competant enough coach to put them at that spot/scenario. You don't win a Champions League tournament or a whole league consisting of 34 games just on luck. Lippi is a great coach, you can tell us about how horrible his player selection was this past season but that's about it IMO.

Legro was rated by every single Italian coach, for a fact. Lippi was unlucky to be the one that fell for the trap but the hype around him was huge. Trust me, as the Italian coach he won't have much trouble choosing a central defending duo.

 

[Gismo]

Lippi despite the help of cheating in its various forms is one of the best coaches in the world. However the questions is: Can he deliver outside Torino? Milano was no walk on roses, eh?

 

[Frisko]

Right, let's talk about Lippi's record then. He won a scudetto in 98 with the kind help of Mr Ceccarini. We gifted him another one 2 years ago. He's been an absolute disaster in Europe, he won 1 Champions League on penalties against Ajax, he lost 3, the one with Milan on penalties but playing a disastrous game, or should I say NOT playing at all? He also managed to lose a Uefa cup to Parma.

You said no-one could make Juve's defence work last year. Well Lippi had the complete trust of Moggi, so he got what he asked. Lippi asked for Le Grottaglie and thought that Montero and Ferrara were still good players.

There is absolutely no valid point that you or anyone else could come up with to diss a coach's record when he has won 6 scudetto's and a Champions League. You must acknowledge that in order to be lucky you must have a competant enough coach to put them at that spot/scenario. You don't win a Champions League tournament or a whole league consisting of 34 games just on luck. Lippi is a great coach, you can tell us about how horrible his player selection was this past season but that's about it IMO.

Legro was rated by every single Italian coach, for a fact. Lippi was unlucky to be the one that fell for the trap but the hype around him was huge. Trust me, as the Italian coach he won't have much trouble choosing a central defending duo.

Are you telling me that you'd be happy to see the Italian national team playing the way Juve played under Lippi? Are you kidding me? The objective of the team is not to score a goal but to get a corner so they can score with a header, or to get the ball to Nedved so he can dive near the box, and Del Piero can score with a deflected free-kick?

Whenever I watch Juve playing, they don't impose themselves. They just WAIT. You always think, "they can't win this one. They're not even trying" Then they snatch a winner. But look at this year. Juve went behind against Inter twice, against Milan twice, against Lazio and Roma in Rome, and only once they managed to come back, thanks to a great strike from Di Vaio at the S Siro against Milan. Once they couldn't just wait and look to steal a winner, they didn't have a clue what to do! That was so evident against Inter in Turin and Roma in Rome.

Is that what you want for Italy?

 

[Gismo]

I don´t care HOW we win! As long as we win in all fairness.

 

[Frisko]

I don´t care HOW we win! As long as we win in all fairness.

That's where I'm different. Italy has so many great players in his squad, I want them to show the world what they can do. Not just to win however they can manage. I was disgusted at Italy's performances at Euro 2000, Korea 2002 and Euro 2004. In the end I was cheering for the opposition. We hit the bottom at Euro 2000 against Holland, we were the shame of football in that match.

 

[Gismo]

We hit the bottom at Euro 2000 against Holland, we were the shame of football in that match.

You see that´s where I go in coma... To me soccer is about winning, the way it is done is irregular! :stuckup:

Shame of football? :wallbang: I don´t give a sh!t if we play more boring than a freeking opera as long as we win!!! :lala:

 

[Frisko]

We hit the bottom at Euro 2000 against Holland, we were the shame of football in that match.

You see that´s where I go in coma... To me soccer is about winning, the way it is done is irregular! :stuckup:

Shame of football? :wallbang: I don´t give a sh!t if we play more boring than a freeking opera as long as we win!!! :lala:

Well enjoying football is much easier for you Gismo... But you picked Inter! God if you picked Juve as your team you'd be the happiest man alive!

Inter is all about suffering and never give up... If you're happy with winning no matter how, Juve would have been perfect... But you don't choose, do you? The team chooses you... At least that's what happened with me.

 

[Gismo]

True and untrue. I wouldn´t like Juve since it is my number 1 team I hate and despice on the face of this planet.

I agree that the team chooses you. And I agree that being Interista can be very hard. But Inter is also about dreaming and the light green hope for the future.

From a subjective point of view I take entertainment value as a bonus. From a neutral point of view I take entertainment as a gift.

 

[Tommi]

I don't see the point in bringing back the guys who have done squat for the nazionale, and that includes Alex to our very own Vieri. Sure, he was good in World Cup 98 and 2002 but he isn't half the player he used to be it seems.

Isn´t half of the player? What have you eaten?

I agree if you are talking about DP´s NT career, but including Vieri there is plain stupid. One bad tournament (he used painkillers that he could even be in the field!) and one not-so-good season (but not-so-bad either) with Inter and now he isn´t even half a player he once were.

Your post doesn´t even deserve to be answered. I´m only wasting my time...

I was disgusted at Italy's performances at Euro 2000, Korea 2002 and Euro 2004. In the end I was cheering for the opposition. We hit the bottom at Euro 2000 against Holland, we were the shame of football in that match.

I thought we played quite good tournament in Euro2000. With a little bit of luck and we would´ve won it!

Against Holland we played ultra-defensive game, but that was just because Zambrotta got a red card when just 34 minutes were played. Should we have played offensive game against home team with a man less? We won Holland, thanks to Toldo and poor penalties taken by De Boer, Kluivert, Bosvelt and Stam. Totti´s penalty was a masterpiece! :star: That was beautiful win!

 

[Gaetan]

Isn´t half of the player? What have you eaten?

I agree if you are talking about DP´s NT career, but including Vieri there is plain stupid. One bad tournament (he used painkillers that he could even be in the field!) and one not-so-good season (but not-so-bad either) with Inter and now he isn´t even half a player he once were.

Your post doesn´t even deserve to be answered. I´m only wasting my time...

Yeah, unlike you i am not in denial when it comes to Bobo. He is 31 years old now and have come to accept that he isn't the player he once was. His age is starting to catch up with him and it's taking it's toll on him, it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Ofcourse, i do not think that he's half of the player he used to be but that's called an exaggeration - something quite frankly that we all do when we get in the heat of things. Bobo would only be slowing down the nazionale towards it's new era for World Cup 2006, i feel that this Euro was the last big tournament for him as many other Italians feel so what i am saying isn't abnormal of any sort.

Bobo has always been great with the national team before this tournament. You can make up a list of excuses about how he wasn't fully fit and how he didn't have a bad season with us, but he's getting up there with age and i think his time with the Azzurri is done. Keep in mind, i have absolutely nothing against him and am not one of his bashers either. Look at my avatar for christ sake.

 

[Frisko]

I'm not sure about Vieri. He had a very bad season last year, and a terrible Euro 2004. Is he finished? Or was it a bad period and he can come back? I think even the best Vieri can't challenge Adriano for the spot of main striker. So there would be matches when the pair Vieri-Adriano will be ok. In others, it will be better Adriano-Martins or Recoba. And Adriano has got to rest sometimes. So everything should work out fine.

Just one thing: if we gave Vieri away now we could have used him to get a good player. If he stays and fails again, he's gonna be basically worthless and keeping him is gonna cost us dearly.

 

[Tommi]

Yeah, unlike you i am not in denial when it comes to Bobo. He is 31 years old now and have come to accept that he isn't the player he once was.

I´m not in denial, to be perfectly honest.

I know he had a poor season (overall) and i am a bit worried, but i have faith in him. How many players doesn´t have one bad season in their careers? I do not believe that he isn´t the player he was in 2002/2003 season and seasons before that. Age has nothing to do with his performances, yet. In two-three years it will show, but not yet.

You can make up a list of excuses about how he wasn't fully fit and how he didn't have a bad season with us, but he's getting up there with age and i think his time with the Azzurri is done.

Yeah, what a poor excuse it was when he got injured against Sweden in Euro2004 tournament. Poor poor excuse...

Vieri had a good start of the season (with Inter) until we changed our coach and bought Adriano back. Coincidence? Vieri suddenly was poor because of his age? I dont believe it, not true.

And last, i believe that if Vieri continues to play good soccer, then he will be called up to WC2006 qualifiers/tournament.

He isn´t finished, he will make you (and plenty of others) to eat your doubts/harsh words against him...

 

[Frisko]

Yeah, unlike you i am not in denial when it comes to Bobo. He is 31 years old now and have come to accept that he isn't the player he once was.

I´m not in denial, to be perfectly honest.

I know he had a poor season (overall) and i am a bit worried, but i have faith in him. How many players doesn´t have one bad season in their careers? I do not believe that he isn´t the player he was in 2002/2003 season and seasons before that. Age has nothing to do with his performances, yet. In two-three years it will show, but not yet.

You can make up a list of excuses about how he wasn't fully fit and how he didn't have a bad season with us, but he's getting up there with age and i think his time with the Azzurri is done.

Yeah, what a poor excuse it was when he got injured against Sweden in Euro2004 tournament. Poor poor excuse...

Vieri had a good start of the season (with Inter) until we changed our coach and bought Adriano back. Coincidence? Vieri suddenly was poor because of his age? I dont believe it, not true.

And last, i believe that if Vieri continues to play good soccer, then he will be called up to WC2006 qualifiers/tournament.

He isn´t finished, he will make you (and plenty of others) to eat your doubts/harsh words against him...

I hope Vieri will be back. And with a different attitude. I want to see him celebrate his goals and don't give us and bs like when he refused the bench. Anyway one thing has changed now: he's not our main man now. Adriano is. No question about that.

 

[Handoyo]

Well honestly to be ruling Vieri out of a good tournament again is just shameful IMO. The next major tournament is the World Cup 2006 in Germany. Who is Italy's all-time top scorer in the world cup, may I ask? Player like Bobo can play well until they reach 33 IMO. Just look at Alan Shearer who's still banging the goals in EPL. Besides, Gilardino, touted as Bobo's replacement, has only enjoyed one good season in Serie A and he can very well be a flash in the pan.


Handyo

 

[Gaetan]

Are you telling me that you'd be happy to see the Italian national team playing the way Juve played under Lippi? Are you kidding me? The objective of the team is not to score a goal but to get a corner so they can score with a header, or to get the ball to Nedved so he can dive near the box, and Del Piero can score with a deflected free-kick?

Is that what you want for Italy?

Firstly, a win is a win. Lippi hasn't always played unattractive football and even if he did, as long as he wins it's okay with me. He's still got the touch IMO, having won two scudetto's in a row from 2002 and 2003.

I want what's best for Italia, and i have faith in Lippi to bring glory back to the nazionale in 2006.

He isn´t finished, he will make you (and plenty of others) to eat your doubts/harsh words against him...

I certainly hope you are right, because the Azzurri could certainly use a prolific goalscoring threat. Make no mistake about it, i never ever said he wouldn't play good for us but that he seems to be rather useless for the nazionale in 2006. I predict he won't be good enough by then for the team and should be dropped now and they start testing new players at an early stage, the earlier the better IMO.

Well honestly to be ruling Vieri out of a good tournament again is just shameful IMO. The next major tournament is the World Cup 2006 in Germany. Who is Italy's all-time top scorer in the world cup, may I ask? Player like Bobo can play well until they reach 33 IMO. Just look at Alan Shearer who's still banging the goals in EPL. Besides, Gilardino, touted as Bobo's replacement, has only enjoyed one good season in Serie A and he can very well be a flash in the pan.

Ha. If someone told you that Bobo wouldn't have scored a single gol in the Euro tournament you would have laughed at him and told you that his football knowledge is limited.

What you guys need to understand is there's a good amount of reason to believe that the Christian Vieri of old may never return. His performances latelly have left alot to be desired, but i for one don't think he should continue with his international career. It's just too much. Ofcourse, i think he will be a vital part to our success or lack of success next season because he's still a valuable player but we don't depend on him as much as we once did about two years ago.

Simply put, i think Bobo could keep on playing at a higher level for a longer amount of time if he quit the Azzurri. I stand by what i said earlier, he should be out of the team and just keep on playing for FC Inter because i feel that he won't come of any use whatsoever by World Cup 2006. Eh, to each his own right?

 

[Handoyo]

Of course I would have laughed at the suggestion. But I'm sure all of us would have laughed at the suggestion that Greece would be Euro champion too. Football isn't about prediction.

I don't see why Vieri should be out of the Italian NT. Vieri was scoring for fun for them prior to the Euros. One bad tournament doesn't make him a bad striker, either for Inter or Italy.

I'm not asking for the old 01/02 Vieri to return but Vieri could have and should be able to to change his gamestyle and rely on his physical presence more than ever. He could also improve his goal-scoring sense and finishing. Vieri will be 33 at the World Cup 06. That should be the point where he retires from the NT, not now. He still has some unfinished business to do.

Pele who had a great World Cup record, played well in WC 70 despite being well over 30. Why can't Vieri do the same? I'm not comparing their ability of course but just because a player is old, it doesn't mean that they will have a bad tournament in a tournament they specialise on. Besides, it's not as if Vieri scored a single-digit goal in his regular club season. He scored 19 goals for God's sake!


Handyo

 

[Frisko]

I think we'll need to wait and see what Vieri can manage to do this year. It's not looking good at the moment, he's injured and Mancini says it's unlikely that he'll be fit for the CL qualifier. That means someone else is gonna be a starter at first (Recoba-Martins). If they do good it'll be hard to send them back on the bench. Especially if Vieri's preparation will be compromised by this injury...