Calling up Nationalized players?

[.h.]

if a lion is born with insert random animal here , spends a lifetime with them , he can be friendly with them, can live with them,can understand them, do you think he will ever become that type of animal ?

sure he can feel like it, but he will never be that type of animal

You clearly dont understand the difference between species and race

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I would love to have Zlatan in NT.

This ...

------- Ibra ---- Džeko -------
--Lulić ------Pjanić -----------

would be sweet ...

Naw. No world class

 

[Universe]

Ya this thread is shit and it only really conclusively proves one thing - that pimpin is a major mong.

Whether some of you like it or not, this is a balance of institution and individualism. For historical, governmental and academic purposes, there has always been a need to categorise people into groups depending on genetic makeup, race and ethnicity. What some of you seemingly can't handle is that that has increasingly less influence on the individual. While it may sound 'hippy' as fuck to some of you, who the fuck are you or I to disparage? If someone 'feels' or 'wants' to be of a certain category be it a nationality, why can't they be? Now balance this notion of individualism with the more tangible logistics of the real world. For classification sakes, there are legal requirements to be met if someone wants to be 'officially' categorised into a certain nationality eh? This usually includes factors such as living in the country for a certain number of years etc. Now combine the two together: if someone, regardless of their initial background, moves to a new country because he/she wants to be part of that 'category', and then follows the official and legal channels to do so, who the absolute fuck are you to question that?

These peoples reasoning for doing so is completely private. Whether it's because they truly love their adopted nation and feel part of it, or simply because they think their new nation has a better chance of winning or has a football team of a higher caliber; it's none of your fucking business and something you will never truly know anyhow. If they take the official and legal process to becoming a citizen of their new country, then they have every right to play for their adopted nation, regardless of why, because they satisfied the 'how' criteria.

Pencilpal has made good points discussing the difference between ethnicity and race and some of you are still stuck with this fucking backwards mentality of 'once a something, always a something'. Fapuccino too was making some sense in the first few pages of the thread then he went off the rails a bit. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that between the balance of a nation and an individual, the importance of the nation to the individual, varies drastically. Hypothetically, if I were an international footballer, I would represent Korea in a heartbeat because Korea's 0.5% chance of winning the world cup is higher than Australia's 0.4%. Also, I would get so much more sweet fangirlism in Korea than an Asian would in Australia. If though, my long-term club team was in Germany, or Italy, or wherever, and I followed the official procedure to become a citizen and had some attachment to that country, then I'd have no problem representing them either.

Using myself as an example, my parents are both Korean, born in Korea, and moved here 30 years ago and I was born and raised here. I'm far more comfortable in the English language, the majority of my friends are 'Australian' or as you might say, 'English' , my passport is Australian, I love visiting Korea though I limit myself to stays of a fortnight, or max 3 weeks because I don't feel entirely comfortable there, I'm more at home in Sydney. Now what am I?

Objectively, I would obviously say that I'm racially a Korean, ethnically a mix of Korean and Australian culture, and nationality-wise, Australian, because that is what my passport says. However, personally, I don't remotely feel the need to categorise myself by nationality / race / ethnicity and I don't think its 'emo' or 'hippy' to feel that way. I would be though, offended, if someone said I wasn't able to consider myself either Korean or Australian (both of which have happened), not because of an 'academic' disagreement in classification standard, but because of their skewed personal take on the issue. I highly: enjoy, respect and appreciate aspects of both cultures, but I'm not particularly proud of being either Korean or Australian. Why? Because pride is for personal achievement, not for something I had zero control over.

It's simply not that important to me. This is a concept some of you simply can't accept, clearly because you place much importance on race / ethnicity / nationality whereas others might not.

 

[pencilpal]

Spot on there, Universe

It's all about the principle of individual autonomy at this level, and the ability to synthesize a personal ethnocultural identity based on what you've been exposed to

Not to mention that everyone has the right to treat nationality with an arbitrary amount of respect, and prioritize their career in whatever way they wish

 

[I4E]

Good work Universe. I can relate to alot of what you jjust described.

:thumbsup:

 

[.h.]

.

but ur korean. because derp derp therefore zidane is algerian

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Good work Universe. I can relate to alot of what you jjust described.

:thumbsup:

dont tell me you're korean too?



On a serious note, though.

Your post sums up nicely what I was trying to say. It IS the 'old school' mentality to assume such a stance of 'you are from wherever your heritage is' - which is clearly bullshit. As demonstrated in a few examples above. It's sad that, to this day, people only see divisions like that.

 

[chipschups]

so far our national team, had uruguayan striker and two nigerian as naturalisation player,,
and couples player who had Indonesian heritage but doesnt born in here,,
its a bit irony when you had 200 mil population but cant find 11 good player and depend on naturalisation player
Im glad that project its already stopped before all of our player is only naturalisation,,
I can understand when some player already live in that country for couples generation or maybe above ten years
but when your FA, use that loophole in rules to gain easy success,, I guess its a bit far,,
maybe someday National team will have some transfer rules for exchange player

 

[.h.]

I think clearly the system is open to abuse, but at least in the case of people like Zidane, Boateng (now that I've researched him a bit more), Balotelli, Henry, it's ridiculous to contest.

 

[Fitzy]

I would be though, offended, if someone said I wasn't able to consider myself either Korean or Australian (both of which have happened)

Korstrayan?

 

[milito22]

Did you register on FIF just to post that Zidane is Algerian?

obviously

Also, Zidane never says he's himself Algerian. I might be proud of my father for being a doctor, but that doesn't necessarily make me a doctor.

well he don't have the algerian passport , he can't say that .
but if you speek french you'll know that he is proud of his algerian roots (less english sources on the net
video :zidane :algeria is in my heart

and he always visits algeria , and he speek berber in his home (see his last interview with mbc)

btw , are you french ? because i don't understand this enthousiasme from you

 

[chipschups]

and I heard, academy like ajax, searching several players around the world who potentially can play to their national team,,
bring them at very young age, and if that player really have potential,,
they will help them to get passport,,

the problem is, most of that player is from their ex-colony, asia, afreeca, south america etc,,
in the past, with their power, they squeeze all material resources from that country,,
leaving them with empty bucket and poverty,, and now they tryin to squeeze their talent player too,,
look what happen with suriname lets say,, player like kluivert, seedorf or davids will never had a chances to bring that country to WC,,

 

[.h.]

and I heard, academy like ajax, searching several players around the world who potentially can play to their national team,,
bring them at very young age, and if that player really have potential,,
they will help them to get passport,,

the problem is, most of that player is from their ex-colony, asia, afreeca, south america etc,,
in the past, with their power, they squeeze all material resources from that country,,
leaving them with empty bucket and poverty,, and now they tryin to squeeze their talent player too,,
look what happen with suriname lets say,, player like kluivert, seedorf or davids will never had a chances to bring that country to WC,,

Kluivert was born in Amsterdam..
Davids moved to Holland when he was an infant (according to wikipedia)
Seedorf's professional development was at Ajax...


If you're telling me Kluivert doesn't qualify as dutch, then Zidane isn't French.... and we've already established how retarded that idea is.

 

[chipschups]

Lets say suriname has power and have a better academy,,
and they do same thing what powerful country do,,
did you will say, yeah fine they give that player a chances to become professional,, bla,, bla,,
so whats the different with a new colonialization, when powerful country will keep bigger and the other will only become a spectators,,
maybe you never live as third world country people when every tiny single oportunity can bring to a new level,,
thats why from the player perspective I respecting their choice,,
but for some country who used their power to push other player to choose them,, I really againts them for every reason,,

 

[Pimpin]

so a dude calls another member a mong, and the mod says, good work?

fuck fif I;m done

 

[Universe]

so a dude calls another member a mong, and the mod says, good work?

fuck fif I;m done

Could this be the end of Pimp? If so, you can all thank me later. Nah but seriously, this post pretty much sums up why I'm calling you a mong. You mong. Firstly, there is a chance, remote though it may be, that the mod in question, I4E, was saying good work, or agreeing with me, not regarding the offhand insult directed at you, but rather the 500 word structured argument which followed. Maybe? Eh? After I wrote all that, is that the one thing you choose to focus on?

Secondly, you yourself have insulted members in this thread much in the same vein. I apologise if you took serious offence to the term 'mong'. Much like 'cunt', it's used a lot more lightly in Australia. 'Mong' is more or less equivalent to 'tool', or 'clown' in todays young Australian vocabulary, which is the way I meant it. but anyway:

why won't anyone say shit about this now faggots?

if you were near me id beat the living shit out of you, you ignorant fuck

:thumbsup:

 

[Fapuccino]

Uni thats a very great citizen of the world speech, but youre pretty much implying NT football is a joke. I know deep down race, ethnicity, all that jazz, are arbitrary and a lie, but if there is less and less focus on the individual as you mention, and people care less and less about these categorizations then what the hell is the point of international football? You said it yourself you would skip for a bigger team.

You said you dont take pride in other peoples achievements, then why the fuck do you watch sports at all, or why do you support a team?

I know i start to come across as a close minded bigot redneck when i go on and on about ethnicity/blood, but im just saying for people to be passionate about these teams you must have stricter rules, the looser the rules, the less people will care. I.e. Australia is very multicultural, so people dont really give a fuck about nationality as opposed to more homogenous eastern european places.

The more diversity in a team/country you have the less people will give a shit. Its not racism, its a simple fact. If rules arent made stricter then international football will become completely obsolete in the future, as it is already down on that track.

 

[jmaster]

You, as well as most in this thread, lack a fundamental understanding between the differences of RACE and ETHNICITY.

Zidane was born in France, attended French schools, had French friends, lived in France etc. He is RACIALLY Algerian, but ETHNICALLY French.

When you are surrounded by French individuals in your formative years, and you speak French, obviously you become more French in your manners, ethnicity etc.

RACE has NO effect on ETHNICITY and culture, and on ethnocultural identity

Autonomy gives every individual the right to align themselves with a particular country, speak a certain language, follow a specific religion etc

Franck Ribery is the perfect example of how he can be Muslim but also maintain his French ETHNICITY

Also, I highlighted the Boateng example in my monograph two pages ago. I advise you to read it thoroughly.

Balotelli has NEVER been to Ghana, doesn't speak Akan, and isn't a Muslim. So he is ethnically and culturally NOT from Ghana, regardless of him being RACIALLY from Ghana.

He was born and raised in Italy, by white ITALIAN parents, he SPEAKS with a Brescian accent, and he recognizes himself to be ITALIAN not GHANAIAN.

Hence why he dropped the surname Barwuah in favor of Balotelli.

RACE vs ETHNICITY

Learn to fucking understand the difference

that wasn't even the debate man. look man, Balotelli is from Ghana, end of story. it doesn't matter where he was raised, or what language he speaks, or what country he represents. he will forever be Ghanian, even if 500 years pass, and his grand-grand-grandchildren turn to be white somehow, they will always say "i'm half Ghanian because my grand-grand-grandfather" was Ghanian".

speaking Italian, eating Italian, listening to Italian music or whatever, doesn't make him Italian, it just won't make sense, no matter how intellectually right you explain it. he will forever be a "Ghanian born Italian", because he was born by Ghanian parents, and was raised in Italy. I understand what people mean when they say some players feel English, or Swiss or Italian, but that doesn't make them it. I can feel English, speak English, have and English passport or whatever the fuck, but that won't make me one.

you can't convince anyone with a brain that Balo is Italian, or Zidane French, or Shaqiri is Swiss. they can be "assimilated", live their whole lives in the respective countries, but that won't make them what they're not. it goes way more than that. "assimilated" cause i'm not sure of the right term lol.

 

[crzdcolombian]

Europe has many problems due to migration, why can't they benefit sometimes?

Diego Costa was smart. It is better to have some playing time in a team with lower chances of winning the World Cup than signing for a team with better chances and watching the whole tournament from the bench. I would have done the same.

And Brazilian Soccer Confederation (CBF) is just ridiculous about him losing Brazilian citizenship. Dumbasses.

Exactly !!! Dude went to Spain after already being a pro player. He didn't grow up there. I get players who are older have lived in a place for a long long time have kids who are from that country. But to say no to your own country to play for another just for playing time is BS.

I mean I wouldn't play for USA if Colombia called me at the same time. I hate that I am a colombian/hispanic american and when people go o shit you don't look german or irish where are you originally from. I just don't get why people think this is ok. Players are doing it for money and better contracts. Not for the right reasons.

I remember that Mexico had like 3-4 Argies on the team and when the national anthem started playing they just put there heads down. It's like you can't get ringers on your NT. Or this bs my great great grand ma was Italian. Or France wanting Higuian when he only lived there 2 weeks of his life

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that wasn't even the debate man. look man, Balotelli is from Ghana, end of story. it doesn't matter where he was raised, or what language he speaks, or what country he represents. he will forever be Ghanian, even if 500 years pass, and his grand-grand-grandchildren turn to be white somehow, they will always say "i'm half Ghanian because my grand-grand-grandfather" was Ghanian".

speaking Italian, eating Italian, listening to Italian music or whatever, doesn't make him Italian, it just won't make sense, no matter how intellectually right you explain it. he will forever be a "Ghanian born Italian", because he was born by Ghanian parents, and was raised in Italy. I understand what people mean when they say some players feel English, or Swiss or Italian, but that doesn't make them it. I can feel English, speak English, have and English passport or whatever the fuck, but that won't make me one.

you can't convince anyone with a brain that Balo is Italian, or Zidane French, or Shaqiri is Swiss. they can be "assimilated", live their whole lives in the respective countries, but that won't make them what they're not. it goes way more than that. "assimilated" cause i'm not sure of the right term lol.

Dude is adopted man he is where he grew up. Balo is Italian. You send him to Ghana and he'd be like WTF is this !!! You realize the only US americans are basically all dead because we killed off the natives. My GF was adopted from Korea when she was 2 and has been here 22 years of her life. So she is isn't American? Doesn't eat korean food, listen to it's music or movies. Her parents are italian and german and lives in US. Other than her eyes being slanted she is pretty American.

This type of player choice isn't the problem it's guys who go to europe at 20 and in 2-4 years get called up by some Euro team NT. You sell out your home country that FING Quickly !!! US called up some Colombian kid who hadn't even turned 17 yet !!! He had like pro games at NY and been in the US for 5 years and they FING CALL HIM !!!! That is insane !!

 

[.h.]

Please tell me where you stand on the following:

1 - If I'm english, my parents are english, but I spent my entire life in a foreign country, which I call home, which I'm absorbed into culturally, and I speak the native language fluently, what cultural heritage am I?

2 - If my father is French, and my mother is Arabian, and I spent my whole life in France, what cultural heritage am I?

3 - If my father is French, my mother is Arabian, and I spent my whole life in Saudi Arabia (but in a French culture) what cultural heritage am I?

4 - If my father is French, my mother is Arabian, and I spent my whole life in Saudi Arabia what cultural heritage am I?

5 - If I'm 1/16th Cherokee, 1/4er German, 1/4er French, 1/4er English, and the rest Dutch, born and raised in America, what cultural heritage am I?


Please enlighten me with your "wisdom". And please tell me about you, because unless you're 100% native American, you aren't American.. either that or you need to clarify the distinctions.

Answer these questions please, and the last paragraph.

 

[Kakaroto]

WE ARE THE WORLD, WE ARE THE CHILDREN!!!!! sing it people.

 

[jmaster]

Answer these questions please, and the last paragraph.

so now it's about cultural heritage? gtfoh man

and whatever though, it's stupid to debate such obvious things. and i'm not American, or live there, just put it there for the fun of it