Calling up Nationalized players?

[Kakaroto]

if a lion is born with insert random animal here , spends a lifetime with them , he can be friendly with them, can live with them,can understand them, do you think he will ever become that type of animal ?

sure he can feel like it, but he will never be that type of animal

It depends. Maybe the lion feels like a tiger, we gonna have to ask him.

 

[Pimpin]

- - - Updated - - -

or even better

 

[pencilpal]

man you really seem like you need a mental check. really though.

Zidane is Algerian, but he chose to represent France, the reason doesn't matter. playing for France doesn't make him French lol lol lol.

so according to you, Boateng is German? or Balotelli is Italian? LOL. they represent the respective teams, but they are from other countries.

i'm seriously not sure what's the point here, what are you trying to prove

You, as well as most in this thread, lack a fundamental understanding between the differences of RACE and ETHNICITY.

Zidane was born in France, attended French schools, had French friends, lived in France etc. He is RACIALLY Algerian, but ETHNICALLY French.

When you are surrounded by French individuals in your formative years, and you speak French, obviously you become more French in your manners, ethnicity etc.

RACE has NO effect on ETHNICITY and culture, and on ethnocultural identity

Autonomy gives every individual the right to align themselves with a particular country, speak a certain language, follow a specific religion etc

Franck Ribery is the perfect example of how he can be Muslim but also maintain his French ETHNICITY

Also, I highlighted the Boateng example in my monograph two pages ago. I advise you to read it thoroughly.

Balotelli has NEVER been to Ghana, doesn't speak Akan, and isn't a Muslim. So he is ethnically and culturally NOT from Ghana, regardless of him being RACIALLY from Ghana.

He was born and raised in Italy, by white ITALIAN parents, he SPEAKS with a Brescian accent, and he recognizes himself to be ITALIAN not GHANAIAN.

Hence why he dropped the surname Barwuah in favor of Balotelli.

RACE vs ETHNICITY

Learn to fucking understand the difference

 

[Ffi201zi002tlis]

potential thank thread :slick:

 

[pencilpal]

Valon Behrami was a Swiss player, with swiss passport ONLY. HE I repeat HE wanted to play with Albanian NT , so what did the albanians do? Got a pretty fucking expensive advocate to make him eligible to play for the Albanian NT . All this was 2005. What happened then you wonder? Well Swiss qualified for the world cup, and Behrami choose to play for Swiss over Albania

Read my original monograph two pages back

From a previous post:

It's meaningless where they are born, when they've lived in Switzerland for their entire lives.

On Behrami, note that he moved to Southern Switzerland, which is heavily influenced by Italy. I'd argue that the culture of that region is closer to that of Italy than Germany or France (given the nature of Switzerland being cantonized, and thereby ethnically divided).

So I would maintain that he feels more Swiss than Albanian, especially because he hasn't lived in Albania for more than 15 years.

Again, racial connections are irrelevant compared to ethnic connections.

You say that he wanted to play for the ALbanian NT, and yet Behrami has played for Switzerland at the u18, u19 youth levels

 

[Fitzy]

You say that he wanted to play for the ALbanian NT, and yet Behrami has played for Switzerland at the u18, u19 youth levels

Hmm, interesting, didn't know that. Where did you hear him say he wanted to play for Albania, Pimpdawg?

 

[Pimpin]

he had a meeting with "red and black tifo" and gave them his word that he will join Albanian NT. If you know anything about albanians, giving someone your word, is a pretty big fucking deal, also there was a huge deal to secure his right to play for Albanian NT, and then he went and played for the swiss.

Now he says that if he could do it, he'd do it again, I'm sorry, I don't care if you "more advanced" people don't mind if someone pisses on you shits on you , but I can't stand people like him . He is the definition of what traitor is , bitch ass motherfucker

 

[pencilpal]

he had a meeting with "red and black tifo" and gave them his word that he will join Albanian NT. If you know anything about albanians, giving someone your word, is a pretty big fucking deal, also there was a huge deal to secure his right to play for Albanian NT, and then he went and played for the swiss.

Who can confirm this meeting? The "red and black tifo"? Or are they simply allegations from the Albanian media?

And he did in fact give his word, it was likely due to social and familial pressure.

But the reality is that he is Swiss, and that he represented them for YEARS at youth levels before 2005.

Now he says that if he could do it, he'd do it again, I'm sorry, I don't care if you "more advanced" people don't mind if someone pisses on you shits on you , but I can't stand people like him . He is the definition of what traitor is , bitch ass motherfucker

I understand you may think he's a traitor, but if he REALLY feels Albanian (not my opinion tbh), then consider that he's only wearing the shirt of Switzerland.

Same with Shaqiri tbh, I see him maintaining a Swiss ethnicity, but from what I've seen, he's very PROUD of his Albanian heritage.

 

[Fapuccino]

Pimp you're arguing with Aussies over nationality and ethnicity? Are you joking....

 

[Pimpin]

So your argument is a Renault commercial, and a jon stewart clip?

Fuck it i'm done.

 

[Fapuccino]

To everyone who doesn't understand the difference between race and ethnicity

I don't think you quite understand the concept of ethnicity. The "nucleus" of ethnicity is shared ancestry. This may range anywhere from a few hundred years (Brits) to a few thousand (Egyptians, Chinese).

That being said other factors may come into play, like language, religion, culture. These are important in "gray areas" to reinforce identity i.e. Czechs in Germany reinforce their ethnicity through language. An example with Shaqiri you mentioned is religion. People in the Republic of Albania have many religions, Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, and are pretty secular compared to ethnic Albanians in Yugoslavia (outside of borders) which are almost all Muslims. They keep their religion as a way to disidentify from Orthodox Yugoslavian neighbours.

But religion, language, etc... are only a REINFORCEMENT of ethnicity. Ethnicity is mainly shared RECENT ANCESTRY. Some might see it as a subcategory of race, although that may be a bit faulty.

 

[I4E]

he had a meeting with "red and black tifo" and gave them his word that he will join Albanian NT. If you know anything about albanians, giving someone your word, is a pretty big fucking deal, also there was a huge deal to secure his right to play for Albanian NT, and then he went and played for the swiss.

Now he says that if he could do it, he'd do it again, I'm sorry, I don't care if you "more advanced" people don't mind if someone pisses on you shits on you , but I can't stand people like him . He is the definition of what traitor is , bitch ass motherfucker

What else would you expect him to say to the tifosi ? "Nah, fuck you all.. I'm gonna play for Switzerland" ????

 

[Fitzy]

So your argument is a Renault commercial, and a jon stewart clip?

Fuck it i'm done.

Fella, you made a post comparing this situation to that of animals and lions .

 

[pencilpal]

So your argument is a Renault commercial, and a jon stewart clip?

Fuck it i'm done.

Great job using an irrelevant post to justify why you CANNOT reply to the substance of my reply

I'll re-quote it so you can read it again, and construct your own refutation (if you can)

Who can confirm this meeting? The "red and black tifo"? Or are they simply allegations from the Albanian media?

And he did in fact give his word, it was likely due to social and familial pressure.

But the reality is that he is Swiss, and that he represented them for YEARS at youth levels before 2005.

I understand you may think he's a traitor, but if he REALLY feels Albanian (not my opinion tbh), then consider that he's only wearing the shirt of Switzerland.

Same with Shaqiri tbh, I see him maintaining a Swiss ethnicity, but from what I've seen, he's very PROUD of his Albanian heritage.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think you quite understand the concept of ethnicity. The "nucleus" of ethnicity is shared ancestry. This may range anywhere from a few hundred years (Brits) to a few thousand (Egyptians, Chinese).

That being said other factors may come into play, like language, religion, culture. These are important in "gray areas" to reinforce identity i.e. Czechs in Germany reinforce their ethnicity through language. An example with Shaqiri you mentioned is religion. People in the Republic of Albania have many religions, Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, and are pretty secular compared to ethnic Albanians in Yugoslavia (outside of borders) which are almost all Muslims. They keep their religion as a way to disidentify from Orthodox Yugoslavian neighbours.

But religion, language, etc... are only a REINFORCEMENT of ethnicity. Ethnicity is mainly shared RECENT ANCESTRY. Some might see it as a subcategory of race, although that may be a bit faulty.

FACT:

Ethnicity does NOT imply shared ancestry; it does NOT imply any sort of racial heritage

These are basic principles in ethnic geography

And what does it mean to "reinforce" ethnicity? The meaning of autonomy means you can construct a personal identity BASED off your ethnicity (which is irrelevant to your race). The distinction between race and ethnicity is one of the most fundamental concepts in the study of geography.

Hence why Balotelli is Italian ethnically speaking, but Ghanaian racially speaking

Remember, culture DEPENDS on your ethnicity

So EVEN if ethnicity is, in fact, determined by racial factors, you would argue that Balotelli is of a Ghanaian ethnicity. However, that implies his CULTURE is Ghanaian (in his case, Akan), when that simply isn't true

Meaning that YOUR original definition is completely incorrect

Unless I should trust Fapuccino on this forum compared to the academic community

I've already explained what connection ethnicity has to race, and the definitions of the two terms. Perhaps I should repost the same extract from my original post on this matter:

Ethnicity, on the other hand, is the affiliation or identity with a group of people bound by culture, language, religion etc; the trend is that people sharing an ethnicity possess similar racial bonds, but it is not an absolute characteristic

Note that I’m not saying that people with similar ethnicity possess similar race, just that there is a relation; in a practical context, you don’t necessarily need to be Ashkenazi to become Jewish, learn Hebrew/Yiddish, and follow general cultural customs; however, the general trend is that most Jews are Ashkenazi

- - - Updated - - -

1000 posts

 

[Fapuccino]

You keep posting that quote but it says it's not an absolute characteristic, i.e. there are other minor factors.

Read this about ethnogenesis. ETHNICITY IS ANCESTRY.

Ethnic groups differ from other social groups, such as subcultures, interest groups or social classes, because they emerge and change over historical periods (centuries) in a process known as ethnogenesis, a period of several generations of endogamy resulting in common ancestry (which is then sometimes cast in terms of a mythological narrative of a founding figure); ethnic identity is reinforced by reference to "boundary markers" - characteristics said to be unique to the group which set it apart from other groups.[4][5][6][7][8]

Anyhow, this is getting so off the topic of football. I said ethnicity SHOULD matter in NATIONAL football, and we're having 3-4 pages of discussion on ethnicity.

 

[pencilpal]

Wikipedia

I'm fucking done

I have textbooks upon textbooks I can cite, but I won't waste time.

The reason we're discussing ethnicity is because you LACK a fundamental understanding of the definition of the term

 

[Fapuccino]

Wow. Wikipedia HAHAHAHAHAAH WIKIPEDIA!!!! THERE'S 7 FUCKING SOURCES FOR ONE STATEMENT TO BACK IT UP!! HAHAHAHA!!

What the fuck are your textbook sources? John Stewart?

 

[pencilpal]

Wow. Wikipedia HAHAHAHAHAAH WIKIPEDIA!!!! THERE'S 7 FUCKING SOURCES FOR ONE STATEMENT TO BACK IT UP!! HAHAHAHA!!

What the fuck are your textbook sources? John Stewart?

Spoiler: Citation

De Blij, H., & Fouberg, E. (2012). Human geography. New York: Wiley. Retrieved from http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-EHEP002089.html

You're using an encyclopedia that is PUBLICLY edited, and completely lacks ANY credibility. I can cite bullshit on Wikipedia and still maintain the validity of the statement "given it has a reference". Realize that it doesn't matter if a statement is cited, especially when the quality of the reference of shit; ethos is only determined by a high level of credibility

Now onto the discussion at hand:

The CONVENTIONAL (not academic) definition of ethnicity involves race, because it's easier to understand than what I originally posted. And yet I explained the relation between the two terms quite concisely in a previous post

The faith you vest in your stance is extremely pathetic, especially because YOUR DEFINITION of ethnicity has been deemed irrelevant in the 21st century with the emergence of globalization, as well as with growing support for the idea of individual autonomy in recent times

All this has led to the development of an ETHNO CULTURAL identity for the modern individual, where people can choose what foods to eat, what language to speak, what religion to follow, regardless of their ancestry and race

Hence why Balotelli is Italian, regardless of his Akan heritage

And Ribery is still French, regardless of him being a Muslim etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Because you can be as stubborn as you like, let's say your definition of ethnicity is in fact correct

And let's call my definition of ethnicity as "culture"

Just for your benefit

Does it change the fact that "culture" determines nationality, not ethnicity?

Hence the examples of Mario Balotelli and Thierry Henry

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter what you call it, but what it means

You can replace the word "ethnicity" with "Inter" in my monograph, and yet the meaning wouldn't change

That concept that I am trying to convey to you is what affects individual ethnocultural identity and nationality, NOT heritage, ancestry, or race

Allegiance to the nation state is dependent on the personal connection of all present cultures to the state (in a multinational state)

Hence why the Italian language isn't referred to as a Florentine derivative of Latin etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, if heritage determines nationality, then the only national football team in existence should be the Ethiopian NT, given that humanity descends from the Great African Rift Valley

Another example of the usage of such a misguided argument would be in saying that Argentina, Uruguay, and Brazil shouldn't have national football teams, given that most of their footballers have European heritage

- - - Updated - - -

Now wipe the cum off your face

 

[Wings]

"My father is an Algerian, proud of who he is and I am proud that my father is Algerian."
-Zinedine Zidane


Zinedine Zidane Proud Of Algeria's World Cup Qualifying Performances
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1863/wo...zidane-proud-of-algerias-world-cup-qualifying



zidane have both algerian parents , was born and raised in france doesn't make him french
it's what he consider himself what counts and consider himself french/algerian .

by your logic albert camus is algerian ! because he was born and raised in algeria

Did you register on FIF just to post that Zidane is Algerian?

Also, Zidane never says he's himself Algerian. I might be proud of my father for being a doctor, but that doesn't necessarily make me a doctor.

 

[Hasan]

I would love to have Zlatan in NT.

This ...

------- Ibra ---- Džeko -------
--Lulić ------Pjanić -----------

would be sweet ...