Ranocchia?

[Devious]

 

[Armes]

I stopped reading after "Juan has been our most inconsisted defender"

:serious:

And comparing JZ with him agewise/passive type is all well and good, but Frogsy doesn't have 1% of what Javier was capable of (and probably still is) at that age. JZ didn't need to shout, much like you say Rano doesn't need too, but JZ did his "shouting" on the pitch while this lanky mediocre one we call captain is only one fragrance above the stench of shit.

Regarding the "blessings" of JZ... what did you think he'd say? Had Conte stayed to zebra he'd have joined them (not that anyone would give a shit, but that whole bleeding black and blue crap you indirectly associate him with is ridiculous), but Conte left and he heard 'you're italian and we'll make you captain now', so he stayed.

Ranocchia?

 

[Pajo]

I stopped reading after "Juan has been our most inconsisted defender"

isnt he?

 

[JJM]

stop this Frog vs JJ who is shittier and similar BS...

Truth: they both suck in a 4 man df and don't work good together...we saw it under Strama(then he changed to 3 man df)and we see it now.

Frog: physicaly slow,clumsy,long balls to nowhere,indecisive,can't control the df like he should do as the more experienced of the pair
JJ: shit positioning,clumsy,bad footwork,I sincearly doubt in his football IQ sometimes...

Now we could try to give them more chances(I don't think they can improve much) or play Vidic-Frog/JJ or even Vidic-Andreolli.
I know Vidic has been clumsy and shit but he played the 4 man df for his entire career and is used to it more than the 3 man df shit WM was trying to implement...he once was a great df...Frog and JJ never saw that level of quality.Vidic lost it a bit but there are still class moves left in him tbh.but people just saw those couple of mistakes and went immediately on the hate spree because he was a new purchase...people thought that he is gonna boss instantly or smth.
If neither works we need a reliable new df with some consistency
or back to 3 man df...which no one would like to see tbh...

about the captaincy...In Italy usually the captain is picked with a "who is here the longest" criteria. Ranocchia won that contest and was elected captain. SIMPLE AS THAT!
In Inter no one is atm really a leader.
Handa is the GK...I don't like GK's to be captains tbh.It has to be an outfield player me thinks.
Nagatomo...lol he was capitano against Cagliari and was sent off. No thanks
JJ...nope and nope
same for Guarin...
Palacio is AWOL this season...

I don't rly mind that Frog has the armband seems the only choice if you look closely...but he needs to lead by example on the pitch...he will need to step up his game even more!
but it's hard to do so if the majority of the team lets you down that I admit!
Although Inter has always had "calm" captains...Facchetti,Mazzola,JZ,don't rly know about Bergomi though. and Frog is also a calm dude I think.

Like I said lead by example if you are the capitano! Against Dnipro where he was lost and then sent off...that was a bad bad example.

but no one is like JZ...impossible standard to reach that's why Frogy has it rough I imagine.

 

[.h.]

tbh, i want to bring this up again

wolves and sheep..

admittedly I was wrong on Vidic, but there we go. Who knows, maybe the 4 man defense will bring it out in him. I'm not too hopeful though, to be honest.

 

[bandiera]

Wallace. Dude. Bro. Homie. You're misunderstanding my viewpoint. it's an anti- anti-ranocchia article, not a pro-ranocchia article. so my thesis is the anti-ranocchia argument is bullshit.

in other words, my thesis is that ranocchia isn't necessarily a bad choice for captain, and secondarily that he's better than everyone else in the squad - NOT ranocchia is a good/great captain.

Come on mate, that's far more blurry than what I gave. At least I talked about what he does, motivating the team, where as you simply say "the link", knowing the "history". What, are we choosing a historian or some HR person here?

Link means a fan in the team. someone who values/cares about this shirt, which is shown in rano's loyalty for eample. an interista in the team that knows what this club/tifosi are all about (the history etc). don't play dumb. passion for the shirt is clearly loyalty, being a fan etc.

Again, in your article you really never really properly evaluated the list of players along these points you've brought up. Sure, you have compared the lack of quality in Juan Jesus, but again as I've said, you've simply completely neglected the quality of Handanovic despite admitting quality matters.

What is showing Ranocchia got the passion over the likes of Juan Jesus, Handanovic, and Nagatomo, or even possibly Guarin?

Again, you're being nebulous at best in your article and even in your reply. You're simply saying Handanovic is our best player but the other things he doesn't seem to hold against Ranocchia, for which I question the validity of such statement.

Quality AND leadership/passion for the shirt BOTH matter. why are you reducing it to one or the other? the captain should have both. for the fourth time, it's not handanovic because he doesn't care about inter enough even though he has quality. it's not andreolli because he doesn't have the quality although he cares about inter.

I addressed Handanovic, once again, at the end of the second section when i asked whether the best player is the best captain (eg. baresi, picchi etc). then i explained why - isn't handanovic the one who wants to leave inter if we don't get CL? and it's probable he'll only be world class for a season more, maximum? so it would also be a short term fix. and has he shown any signs of leadership?

 

[Dylan]

it's not handanovic because he doesn't care about inter enough

Prove it.

 

[bandiera]

Nagatomo was still the a first choice player at the time when Ranocchia was handed the armband as this was in preseason before his drop in form was seen.

of course. I actually wanted nagatomo to be captain. the tone of my article is being misunderstood here. Am I saying Ranocchia is a great/fantastic choice? No.

My point is that he's not a bad choice either, and right now, no one else is a better candidate. It's essentially an anti- anti- Ranocchia article.

When did Zanetti and Bergomi back Rano as captain? Was it before or after he was selected. Either way I think a)In the case that they backed him before he was officially made captain. These players (Zanetti still being employed at Inter in some capacity) are not just going to throw their name behind someone without knowing who would become captain. It would look bad an untrusting. Or, b) They gave their backing after he was made captain. In which case someone like Zanetti isn't going to come out and say ''Rano wouldn't have been my choice''.

they both backed him before he was captain. and bergomi has terrible relationship with moratti and inter's mgmt, so his statement wasn't "scripted" at all...

just to quote JZ: "Andrea knows the value of the Nerazzurri (Inter) shirt and, in my opinion, he could be the right man when it comes to making this decision. He is always available and everyone listens to him."

I just think overall you're overplaying this connection to our history and knowledge about it.

nope, i've seen lots of quotes of rano talking about our history, and he knows this environment well. plus he speaks good italian. he also rejected a much higher salary at juve to stay here. he's additionally pushed interest from england away int he past and even a very high offer from milan to replace nesta in years back.

Does Handa know shit about Inter? Who knows? Maybe he knows more than Ranocchia but he just doesn't say anything. You can't know that. I've seen him be a lot more vocal than Ranocchia and pretty much anyone on the pitch when he has to give out shit when the defence fucks up. More than I've seen Ranocchia do this year in his new role as captain. Yes there are rumours that he wants CL, but I like that ambition. Who's to say if a big club comes calling Ranocchia won't ask to go? If we put both Handanovic and Ranocchia up for sale to CL clubs then a club who needs a goalkeeper would be more likely to pay more money fro Handa than a CL needing a CB considering we would probably look to sell him for over 15 million to recoup some of what we paid.

that's why I said "even if we ignore that point". I don't know whether or not Handanovic knows shit about Inter. But here's a difference between knowing stuff and appreciating that stuff. I can spend hours analyzing a van gogh painting, but that won't mean i'll appreciate/like it - and if anything, there's evidence to show handanovic doesn't appreciate Inter ahead of trophies (for example).

Secondly, Handanovic is a GK. All GKs are vocal because they are responsible for organizing the defense (esp in set pieces). the captain also doesn't necessarily need to be the biggest leader, although i also disagree with you re the level of rano's leadership (he's one of our most vocal players ATM)

Thirdly, even if handa is a leader, he is not loyal. You want a mercenary as captain that cares about Inter because of our league position ahead of our fans? Is that captain material?

And are you implying that if you aren't disloyal, you don't have the ambition of qualifying for UCL? As if, for example, Zanetti enjoyed being humiliated in his first 10 years or so at Inter winning nothing other than a solitary UEFA cup?

Rnoacchia has rejectd interest from big clubs before..

 

[Dylan]

I just think overall you're overplaying this connection to our history and knowledge about it.

nope, i've seen lots of quotes of rano talking about our history, and he knows this environment best. plus he rejected a much higher salary at juve to stay here. he's also rejected interest from england and a very high offer from milan to replace nesta in years back.

Misunderstood me, I'm not wondering whether or not he does know about the club. I'm saying why is that important for a captain.


Also this GK not being a captain thing is annoying. Buffon, Casillas, Weidenfeller and loads more are fine captains.

 

[bandiera]

Misunderstood me, I'm not wondering whether or not he does know about the club. I'm saying why is that important for a captain.

why isn't it important in a captain? here's another question. what is important in a captain? Just quality and leadership? because then laurent blanc should have been captain ahead of zanetti in 1999...

for a smaller club, sure. caring about the history isn't as important because there isn't much history. that's why (for example) roby baggio became captain of brescia after he left inter... for a bigger club, it's important to maintain a connection between fans and the squad while challenging for titles - hence why (eg) RM have players like Raul, santillana, hierro, casillas..). although I think we're more in the middle.

Inter should be more than a job/football team to the captain. you need a captain who cares about the team to be the main representative of its players to the fans (and fans to the players)... see zanetti's quote.

Also this GK not being a captain thing is annoying. Buffon, Casillas, Weidenfeller and loads more are fine captains.

add dino zoff to the list too... I never said Handanovic shouldn't be a captain because he is GK. where did you get that from?

 

[Wallace]

Quality AND leadership/passion for the shirt BOTH matter. why are you reducing it to one or the other?

I'm actually not.

I've actually been saying, you need a set of criteria, a set, a set is not one but a union of all those qualities you've mentioned.

What I am saying is, taking into account of everything, there is no sure answer that Handanovic/Nagatomo/Juan Jesus would surely lose out on the captaincy to Ranocchia. Has Ranocchia shown any sign of leadership over any of those people? Again this is questionable. But what I do know, passion wise and quality wise, both Handanovic and Nagatomo are at least on par if not greater.

I've actually said this several times already, I really got nothing more I can elaborate on.

Prove it.

And this is exactly what I'm saying, the entire article is based on some muttering on your personal feeling that Ranocchia is greater in all categories, which I'm just reasonably suggesting that not everyone has the same congruent view as you (bandiera) do on Ranocchia.

 

[bandiera]

Wallace, for the last and final time, the point of this article is to say no one has a decent argument against ranocchia. it's just a rebuttal.

I don't have a thesis, or a criteria, or a definition because I'm not trying to prove ranocchia is great. i'm saying ranocchia isn't necessarily bad.

 

[Wallace]

Lol, you need to chill out a bit.

 

[bandiera]

I'm actually not.

I've actually been saying, you need a set of criteria, a set, a set is not one but a union of all those qualities you've mentioned.

What I am saying is, taking into account of everything, there is no sure answer that Handanovic/Nagatomo/Juan Jesus would surely lose out on the captaincy to Ranocchia. Has Ranocchia shown any sign of leadership over any of those people? Again this is questionable. But what I do know, passion wise and quality wise, both Handanovic and Nagatomo are at least on par if not greater.

you've never said this. you said "first you said quality doesnt matter for handanovic. then you said it does for andreolli. you're contradicting yourself" etc. etc. that's why you were ridiculing my argument with the andreolli shit.

if you want a criteria this badly, i'll give it to you. in no particular order of importance: mentality (training, dedication), leadership (motivating players, organizing team on pitch, helping out mancio with telling players what to do, guiding younger players), passion for shirt (know/appreciate history, fans, culture, be loyal to Inter), quality

nagatomo doesn't have enough quality. handanovic isn't loyal enough and has shown zero signs of being as passionate as rano. plus both of them wouldn't be long term options.

because rano is long term, leadership inevitably grows with time (with respect and power in the dressing room). and I talked about some of the barriers to rano being a leader, and about the progress he's made to even overcome those barriers. he is also one of our best players (the best player other than handa, osvaldo, and kova+icardi on their good days) and he has shown loyalty and interest/appreciation for our history. previous captains also consider him to be the best choice.

 

[Wallace]

you've never said this. you said "first you said quality doesnt matter for handanovic. then you said it does for andreolli. you're contradicting yourself" etc. etc. that's why you were ridiculing my argument with the andreolli shit.

I said it here:

list a set of criteria on how you would choose your captain to show how difficult it is. If you can't, well then I think you're just making it more complicated because you're disregarding every point people are bringing up with fabricated reasoning, rather than arguing and evaluating these players with solid evidence.

nagatomo doesn't have enough quality. handanovic isn't loyal enough and has shown zero signs of being as passionate as rano. plus both of them wouldn't be long term options.

And this is precisely why your argument doesn't cut it for me.

Nagatomo doesn't have enough quality? Dude has been providing goals left and right and assists left and right, on what basis are you saying Nagatomo doesn't have the quality.

And this passionate thing, is just ludicrous, just because he doesn't go around shouting and overreacting to every goal we score? But what about Nagatomo here? Surely he has the passion here, but you've completely avoided evaluating both players across both categories.

 

[bandiera]

I said it here:

you said: make a criteria. you didn't say it wasn't black and white. in fact, you said "what's the problem with making it black and white" after your ridiculous handanovic vs andreolli comparison. don't be an ass and admit it when you said something that was too hasty.

Nagatomo doesn't have enough quality? Dude has been providing goals left and right and assists left and right, on what basis are you saying Nagatomo doesn't have the quality.

nagatomo has been utter shit this season - rano has been one of most consistent players. he's 28, and for a player whose game relies on stamina/speed, he will decline very soon. the captain should be a player who starts and will continue to start.

after all the senatori left last year, we need new long term leadership.

And this passionate thing, is just ludicrous, just because he doesn't go around shouting and overreacting to every goal we score? But what about Nagatomo here? Surely he has the passion here, but you've completely avoided evaluating both players across both categories.

i've avoided evaluating both players? i ignored nagatomo because i already said his quality isn't good enough (the captain needs to be a starter ffs). you're just nitpicking now and trying to tie my words against me.

 

[JJM]

Nagatomo is 28 actually but at Fif we add one more year to prove a point... blivious:

 

[bandiera]

Nagatomo is 28 actually but at Fif we add one more year to prove a point... blivious:

for a player whose game relies on spped stamina his body vs technique intelligence etc, he will decline very soon. and even if he was 23, you cant ignore the fact he isn't starting because he hasn't shown anything to be starting ahead of dambro.

naga is a leader that cares about inter, but if that's all that mattered, then andreolli could probably also be in contention. or orlandoni in years past.

 

[Wallace]

you said: make a criteria. you didn't say it wasn't black and white. in fact, you said "what's the problem with making it black and white" after your ridiculous handanovic vs andreolli comparison. don't be an ass and admit it when you said something that was too hasty.

I compared Handanovic and Andreolli?

Who cares about the "black and white" thing seriously? It's hardly the main point at all. This is what I said:

What's wrong with that? I personally have a clear set of criteria of who I would choose to work as the team leader, be it in football or any other projects in any industries. You don't just choose random people to lead a team of people because there are "grey areas".

My main point from the start was about getting a list of criteria, I've been saying the same thing ever since.

i've avoided evaluating both players? i ignored nagatomo because i already said his quality isn't good enough (the captain needs to be a starter ffs). you're just nitpicking now and trying to tie my words against me.

Ummm...you clearly can't read between the lines here.

I said you avoided evaluating both players across multiple categories, not just avoided evaluating both players, they're two very different sentences. The fact that you have completely neglected Nagatomo in evaluating everyone's passion for Inter is quite frankly, ludicrous to say the least. If we're simply evaluating the current form of a player at the point of choosing the captain, then Nagatomo has been more than qualified, until the point of the assignment of captaincy.

What's the point of going hindsight and say that Ranocchia's performance became solid after getting the captain armband? It is a completely meaningless concept, who's to say Nagatomo's performance wouldn't have been maintained at a decent level had he gotten the ever powerful armband?

In fact, from Ranocchia's inconsistency last season and his career throughout with us, how is it even possible to justify his quality is rightfully deserving of the armband?

I am actually not nitpicking you just yet, it's just that your points are so conspicuously flawed that I can really choose and attack practically any sentence you say.

 

[bandiera]

I compared Handanovic and Andreolli?

Who cares about the "black and white" thing seriously? It's hardly the main point at all. This is what I said:

My main point from the start was about getting a list of criteria, I've been saying the same thing ever since.

so first you said you didnt say it was black and white, then I showed you evidence you said that, then you said ignore that because I also said something else that is completely irrelevant?

fine, you said there's a criteria, i never said anything otherwise - but that doesn't mean your criteria isn't black and whtie. eg. "first you said quality doesn't matter fro handanovic but then it matters for andreollI"...

once more, I don't have to prove rano is great. i'm proving he's not as bad as you think. I don't have a thesis because it wasn't a real article! I'm just listing anti-rano arguments and knocking them down.

I said you avoided evaluating both players across multiple categories, not just avoided evaluating both players, they're two very different sentences. The fact that you have completely neglected Nagatomo in evaluating everyone's passion for Inter is quite frankly, ludicrous to say the least. If we're simply evaluating the current form of a player at the point of choosing the captain, then Nagatomo has been more than qualified, until the point of the assignment of captaincy.

I didn't "neglect" nagatomo or handanovic. I ignored them because they didn't fulfill all the "criteria". You need quality, passion, leadership - to an extent. Rano has quality, passion, and some leadership. Naga lacks quality, but has passion and leadership - you can't be captain from the bench. Handa has quality, but no indication of any leadership, and no passion.

Did you even read the article carefully before going insane over it?

What's the point of going hindsight and say that Ranocchia's performance became solid after getting the captain armband? It is a completely meaningless concept, who's to say Nagatomo's performance wouldn't have been maintained at a decent level had he gotten the ever powerful armband?

In fact, from Ranocchia's inconsistency last season and his career throughout with us, how is it even possible to justify his quality is rightfully deserving of the armband?

Dude. How many times have I said I'm not saying Ranocchia is a great/amazing choice? I was pro-nagatomo for captain.

my point is that rano is not necessarily a bad choice and no one is a better choice than him ATM. who gives a shit about hindsight anymore? why can't you read what I say before you reply?