Messina - Inter
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So, can we safely say that Mancini underestimated his opponents enough to be bold in his tactical approach, thereby fielding a starting 11 in an experimental lineup which in essence failed to work in the proper manner? This loss doesn't really change the fact that our season is already at an end, and we have almost nothing to play for except maintaining that 3rd place. However, i am most worried about a dip in confidence and we can ill afford to do that since Sampdoria are now only 4 points away. Sad, but this is how Inter likes to do things - the hard way.
Mancini is very much a learning coach at the moment and this season has taught him plenty of lessons. The danger is that he will not learn from his mistakes and to repeat them again next season.
Ciao,
Tim
Mancini is very much a learning coach at the moment and this season has taught him plenty of lessons. The danger is that he will not learn from his mistakes and to repeat them again next season.
Ciao,
Tim
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Shame we didn't get Mourinho when we had the chance...
I'm sure he would have been smart enough to not bring in Mihajlovic.
That aside I still think Mancini is the right guy (or atleast the best guy available perhaps...) for the job. He tried something different...it backfired..we lost.
Anywayz only our 3rd defeat of the season but it sort of came at a bad time. But atleast were still four points ahead of Sampdoria so all is still well. We can lose all we want, as long as we finish 3rd. Oh, and there is the Coppa Italia, but now isn't really a good time to speak of how optimistic I feel about our chances winning it.
I'm sure he would have been smart enough to not bring in Mihajlovic.
That aside I still think Mancini is the right guy (or atleast the best guy available perhaps...) for the job. He tried something different...it backfired..we lost.
Anywayz only our 3rd defeat of the season but it sort of came at a bad time. But atleast were still four points ahead of Sampdoria so all is still well. We can lose all we want, as long as we finish 3rd. Oh, and there is the Coppa Italia, but now isn't really a good time to speak of how optimistic I feel about our chances winning it.
Jimmy said:
Football remains a team game with ten field players and a keeper. Techncially we could blame every goal on Toldo, because by the laws of nature and the laws of football, as long as he remains on the field, in an unincapacitated state, he has an opportunity to prevent the ball from crossing the line. However, if you understand football, you realize that that explanation holds little merit, and that other episodes on the field usually lead to "one on one" breakaways with the striker versus the keeper. So, we usually don't blame the keeper when the ball flies past him into the net. In fact, with a good team, you shouldn't have to rely on a keeper. A keeper is essentially a crutch, someone to save your ass when another player has made a mistake (i.e. missed a tackle, allowed a winger to cross, failed to win an aerial challenge). However, as we saw with Toldo, his heroics rescued us last Wednesday with Juve. Though remember, in a good game, a convincing win, the keeper never touches the ball.
Now as for the episodes that led to the ball going past Toldo, I'll explain what I saw.
FIRST GOAL
Simply a matter of three defenders standing around, while Miha went up in an aerial two on one. Maybe the other defenders thought he had it, but in situations in the box, there should always be man to man. That might be the reason why we get beat on so many set pieces.
SECOND GOAL
Please don't immediately blame Miha. I know he remains everyone's favorite scapegoat due to his age/violent behavior/fascist leanings/friendship with Mancio but he was only partially to blame in this instance. The episode started in the middle of our half with a Messina player poorly trapping a ball bouncing it off his knee, while an Inter (Oba, I think) half pursued him and dropped off, allowing him to freely pass to Rafael. But wait, we have five guys back to stop goals for being scored in this situation, no breakaways here. The first after the Inter who allowed the pass was an Inter who looked like Veron,who, after semi lunging to stop the pass threw his hand up in appeal for offsides. I just don't understand why players cannot pursue the man instead of gambling on a dumb linesman to raise his flag, and then for the ref to give the call. Once the appealer was burned, Rafael raced onwards while a nearby defender just kind on trotted behind. As for Miha, he then advanced from the center to take down Rafael, but it was already too late.
I count two men beat on the play, but the real trouble exists in the three others who failed to involve themselves in it.
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We don't need a revolution. This is just a set-back. When Milan lost to Siena last week none of their fans started saying "Ancelotti is an idiot!" and "Get rid of these sh*t players!". When Juve lost at home to Sampdoria or Milan lost at home to Bologna even, was a revolution requested? no. These things happen. Let's just get on with life.
It's important for us not have a love-hate relationship with Mancini. We all loved him on Wednesday after beating Juve, but now we "hate" him after losing to Messina. But take into consideration one thing... WE ONLY HAD 2 FIT STRIKERS. THIS WAS OUR FIRST AWAY LEAGUE LOSS OF THE SEASON.
So take it easy. We'll recover, and it's not like we had any chance of winning scudetto anyway. We're still in a strong position to finish 3rd and we are going to finish 3rd definitely. We're also going to win the Coppa Italia.
Then, in the summer, Mancini is going to sign who he feels is necessary, get rid of who he doesn't want (e.g. Davids, Gamarra) and we will develop into a team ready to win a scudetto. Barcelona had a bad start to last season but remained focussed for the second half (like we have) and are now the best team in Spain and if not for Chelsea they might be the best in Europe.
by the way.......... you guys should all see xandru's Veron compilation - it is very impressive!
It's important for us not have a love-hate relationship with Mancini. We all loved him on Wednesday after beating Juve, but now we "hate" him after losing to Messina. But take into consideration one thing... WE ONLY HAD 2 FIT STRIKERS. THIS WAS OUR FIRST AWAY LEAGUE LOSS OF THE SEASON.
So take it easy. We'll recover, and it's not like we had any chance of winning scudetto anyway. We're still in a strong position to finish 3rd and we are going to finish 3rd definitely. We're also going to win the Coppa Italia.
Then, in the summer, Mancini is going to sign who he feels is necessary, get rid of who he doesn't want (e.g. Davids, Gamarra) and we will develop into a team ready to win a scudetto. Barcelona had a bad start to last season but remained focussed for the second half (like we have) and are now the best team in Spain and if not for Chelsea they might be the best in Europe.
by the way.......... you guys should all see xandru's Veron compilation - it is very impressive!
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Yeah, yet another reason Inter desperately needs Chivu...
The only consolation is that this is Inter's only second defeat of the season. I mean, if the season is lost already, it would be a good time for Mancini to experiment with the team... formations, players, etc
The only consolation is that this is Inter's only second defeat of the season. I mean, if the season is lost already, it would be a good time for Mancini to experiment with the team... formations, players, etc
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You can't compare Inter's situation with those of Milan's and Juventus'. They have more in common with each other than any of them have with Inter. Calls for revolution and fan unrest has long been a hallmark of the society/football club that is Inter. I'm not advocating for revolution or massive changes for that matter; however, you must understand that such demands are the norm.primo-inter said:
We very well can't love his mistakes now, can we?
I was very sure we were going to win at Messina as well. However, we didn't. Would you still have all elements of love for Mancini if he fails to deliver you your Champions League position and the Coppa Italia?
But then again, Mancini's squad isn't exactly the whole cause of Inter's problems. Maybe it's more like squad selection.
Ciao,
Tim
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Ohhhhhhhh, what happened? Just three days ago everybody were supporting Mancio.
But now after this defeat what happened?
I don't see this result to be that important. We are out of the scudetto race and the 3rd or 4th place is to some extent reserved for us.
Mancio MUST use these remaining matches just to examine his tactics. He should offer his transfer list in 1 or 2 months. I have some reasons for what I'm saying:
1- In all the previous matches when we didn't have a LB we use to play J.Z there and Ze-M as a RB. As Ze-m was a RW today so it's obvious that Mancio has learned from the previous mistakes and also now Mancio is working on Ze-m to get the best out of him. The remaining matches will show Mancio whether we need a new RW or not.
2- Last week Mancio said that Veron plays much better as a CM. Today Veron was placed as a CM similare to Pirlo's roll. Mancio knows that both Stankovic and Veron should be in center of our mid. Even today Stankovic wasn't a winger and this is another posetive sign.
3- Mancio has 7~8 more matches to see whether Emre has a place in his next plans or not. Also Emre has this time to prove his self too. Maybe somebody says that Mancio has been here from the start of the season so he could know Emre before. But I answer that Mancio couldn't test all of his ideas before because of the heavy pressure on him. Now that we are out of Scudetto he can examine them MORE FREELY.
4- Mancio started this season with zero or 1 DMs in his line ups. Then as we had many problems in defence he couldn't find the exact solution as he couldn't risk that much at the start. At that point the most primary solution was to use more defensive players. Mancio likes an offensive line up as he showed it at the start of the season. Now he wants to find the solutions to use at last only 1 DM in his next line ups. If he succeded then it leads to 3 things:
A: A more attacking play
B: Then there's a place in the CM for Veron or Stankovic so we won't be forced to use them as wingers, especially for Veron. Then they will be placed on their proper and favourite position. I think that the brightest side of today's match was is that Veron played where Pirlo plays in Bilan.
c: We would be able to use two pure wingers. Mancio knows that in our 442 we need two pure wingers and it's better to have the playmaker at the center. It takes some of our styrenght when we use Veron as a RW.
I don't know why we started with Cruz only, maybe it was due to our injured strikers but in any cases I'm sure that Mancio used today's match to check his ideas. He didn't do so in the match against Juve as he knows the importance of this match for us, Inter fans, but he would do so in the next remaining matches. I'm 100% SURE he has gotten the club's permision before going to do these changes. I'm sure that Faccheti or Moratti has told him: " Mancio, You can examine your ideas but don't forget the 3rd place for next year's CL."
Please don't forget that Mancio has been here for just less than a year. He has shown that he is working and trying so hard. I think most of you agree with me that this Inter is stronger than the Inters of last decade. Don't you? So plaese give him the time. The only thing that wasn't offered to all the previous coaches of us in the last 16 years was TIME. The needed time.
A wining squade won't be built in only one or two years. We have started a project and the most important thing in these kind of projects is that the squade has shown that we are improving. From Serie A's 14th week we have been the best club in Italy. Any teams can lose to another in any times. Last week Bilan lost to Siena and you know that Cagliari is a stronger team than Siena.
As a fan I can't do anything else except supporting the team and Mancio's ideas.
So Forza Inter & Mancio
Mancio knows what he should do.
I'm sorry if I took your valuable time. I just wanted to say that I LOVE INTER. I want the best things for Inter but in any situations I'm honoured to be an INTER fan. Inter is a part of my life and pride.
I'm sure all of are like me so support Mancio and please see the ful part of the glass not the empty area. We can do it. I repeat WE can do it. Our good days aren't that far. We are so close to what we want. We have waited a long time and we have to wait just a little more time. The bad days make the good days much more sweater. Let's take each other's hands and look forward.
FORZA INTER 4EVER
But now after this defeat what happened?
I don't see this result to be that important. We are out of the scudetto race and the 3rd or 4th place is to some extent reserved for us.
Mancio MUST use these remaining matches just to examine his tactics. He should offer his transfer list in 1 or 2 months. I have some reasons for what I'm saying:
1- In all the previous matches when we didn't have a LB we use to play J.Z there and Ze-M as a RB. As Ze-m was a RW today so it's obvious that Mancio has learned from the previous mistakes and also now Mancio is working on Ze-m to get the best out of him. The remaining matches will show Mancio whether we need a new RW or not.
2- Last week Mancio said that Veron plays much better as a CM. Today Veron was placed as a CM similare to Pirlo's roll. Mancio knows that both Stankovic and Veron should be in center of our mid. Even today Stankovic wasn't a winger and this is another posetive sign.
3- Mancio has 7~8 more matches to see whether Emre has a place in his next plans or not. Also Emre has this time to prove his self too. Maybe somebody says that Mancio has been here from the start of the season so he could know Emre before. But I answer that Mancio couldn't test all of his ideas before because of the heavy pressure on him. Now that we are out of Scudetto he can examine them MORE FREELY.
4- Mancio started this season with zero or 1 DMs in his line ups. Then as we had many problems in defence he couldn't find the exact solution as he couldn't risk that much at the start. At that point the most primary solution was to use more defensive players. Mancio likes an offensive line up as he showed it at the start of the season. Now he wants to find the solutions to use at last only 1 DM in his next line ups. If he succeded then it leads to 3 things:
A: A more attacking play
B: Then there's a place in the CM for Veron or Stankovic so we won't be forced to use them as wingers, especially for Veron. Then they will be placed on their proper and favourite position. I think that the brightest side of today's match was is that Veron played where Pirlo plays in Bilan.
c: We would be able to use two pure wingers. Mancio knows that in our 442 we need two pure wingers and it's better to have the playmaker at the center. It takes some of our styrenght when we use Veron as a RW.
I don't know why we started with Cruz only, maybe it was due to our injured strikers but in any cases I'm sure that Mancio used today's match to check his ideas. He didn't do so in the match against Juve as he knows the importance of this match for us, Inter fans, but he would do so in the next remaining matches. I'm 100% SURE he has gotten the club's permision before going to do these changes. I'm sure that Faccheti or Moratti has told him: " Mancio, You can examine your ideas but don't forget the 3rd place for next year's CL."
Please don't forget that Mancio has been here for just less than a year. He has shown that he is working and trying so hard. I think most of you agree with me that this Inter is stronger than the Inters of last decade. Don't you? So plaese give him the time. The only thing that wasn't offered to all the previous coaches of us in the last 16 years was TIME. The needed time.
A wining squade won't be built in only one or two years. We have started a project and the most important thing in these kind of projects is that the squade has shown that we are improving. From Serie A's 14th week we have been the best club in Italy. Any teams can lose to another in any times. Last week Bilan lost to Siena and you know that Cagliari is a stronger team than Siena.
As a fan I can't do anything else except supporting the team and Mancio's ideas.
So Forza Inter & Mancio
Mancio knows what he should do.
I'm sorry if I took your valuable time. I just wanted to say that I LOVE INTER. I want the best things for Inter but in any situations I'm honoured to be an INTER fan. Inter is a part of my life and pride.
I'm sure all of are like me so support Mancio and please see the ful part of the glass not the empty area. We can do it. I repeat WE can do it. Our good days aren't that far. We are so close to what we want. We have waited a long time and we have to wait just a little more time. The bad days make the good days much more sweater. Let's take each other's hands and look forward.
FORZA INTER 4EVER
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Well Miki it's easy for you to criticse him from where-ever you are, Vietnam or where-ever but what I'm saying is, Mancini is not perfect so we can't hate him for every mistake. He fielded a quality team, besides the LB choice we can't really criticse him.
Milan and Juventus have more in common with each other than they do with Inter... I know this, but Milan and Juventus win more scudetti than Inter don't they? I think we should become more like Juve and Milan so we can win a scudetto, dont you agree?
Mancini will deliver us CL spot, end of story. If Mancini doesn't win us Coppa Italia I'll be annoyed and we'll evaluate the situation then. But you can't compare a round 33 fixture when we have virtually nothing to play for to winning a cup. Even if it is a stupid cup which nobody really cares about we might as well win it. As Mancini said recently, "winning helps you win".
Mancini's squad is definitely a problem. We've only got 2 top-class defenders in J. Zanetti and Ivan Ramiro Cordoba. The rest (excluding Burdisso who is away) are at a mediocre level. Our midfield is good, but we still need a few fixes. Our strikers are excellent, we've just had a tough time with injuries this season, with all of our strikers suffering from injures at some stage. Recoba broke his ankle and Adriano did some ligament damage, Vieri has also been out for a while due to some sort of "knock".
Mancini is our coach, I don't think disliking him will do us any good, he has his reasons for his decisions and sometimes we are unfortunate.
Milan and Juventus have more in common with each other than they do with Inter... I know this, but Milan and Juventus win more scudetti than Inter don't they? I think we should become more like Juve and Milan so we can win a scudetto, dont you agree?
Mancini will deliver us CL spot, end of story. If Mancini doesn't win us Coppa Italia I'll be annoyed and we'll evaluate the situation then. But you can't compare a round 33 fixture when we have virtually nothing to play for to winning a cup. Even if it is a stupid cup which nobody really cares about we might as well win it. As Mancini said recently, "winning helps you win".
Mancini's squad is definitely a problem. We've only got 2 top-class defenders in J. Zanetti and Ivan Ramiro Cordoba. The rest (excluding Burdisso who is away) are at a mediocre level. Our midfield is good, but we still need a few fixes. Our strikers are excellent, we've just had a tough time with injuries this season, with all of our strikers suffering from injures at some stage. Recoba broke his ankle and Adriano did some ligament damage, Vieri has also been out for a while due to some sort of "knock".
Mancini is our coach, I don't think disliking him will do us any good, he has his reasons for his decisions and sometimes we are unfortunate.
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Without having seen this match it is a pitty to see that our coach is still experimenting like was it a bloody casino!
He fields Materazzi and Mihajlovic together in central defence which is suicidal. Something he even stated himself in the beginning of the season. Sudden change of heart?? Beats me...
Coco is not called up which is a clear mistake unless he is not ready for action.
Anyway, with the squad he called up he should damn well realise that Ze Maria and J. Zanetti could cover our flanks. Then we would have had our normal duo of Cordoba - Mihajlovic in the middle keeping it nice and simple with a four back we've played several times before.
Nooo... Mancini chooses the deathwish MihaMatrix freakshow luxus delight duo of Mr. Bean on amfetamin combined with Donald Duck in Hollywood!
Cambiasso and C. Zanetti might have been tired from Wednesday or whatever. But when is our next match? In a week ladies and gentlemen. So, why not start at least one of them to give that crucial balance it is to have a ballwinner in your team and substitute him when he gets tired? Again, freaking quiz to break into Mancio's ideas today.
It is OK to field one striker. But G, Martins would be the logical choice to field alone up there and NOT Cruz!
I have no fears we will lose 3rd place and finishing 5th is inconcievable to me.
Bring me Coppa Italia and you'll silence my critics Roberto Mancini!
He fields Materazzi and Mihajlovic together in central defence which is suicidal. Something he even stated himself in the beginning of the season. Sudden change of heart?? Beats me...
Coco is not called up which is a clear mistake unless he is not ready for action.
Anyway, with the squad he called up he should damn well realise that Ze Maria and J. Zanetti could cover our flanks. Then we would have had our normal duo of Cordoba - Mihajlovic in the middle keeping it nice and simple with a four back we've played several times before.
Nooo... Mancini chooses the deathwish MihaMatrix freakshow luxus delight duo of Mr. Bean on amfetamin combined with Donald Duck in Hollywood!
Cambiasso and C. Zanetti might have been tired from Wednesday or whatever. But when is our next match? In a week ladies and gentlemen. So, why not start at least one of them to give that crucial balance it is to have a ballwinner in your team and substitute him when he gets tired? Again, freaking quiz to break into Mancio's ideas today.
It is OK to field one striker. But G, Martins would be the logical choice to field alone up there and NOT Cruz!
I have no fears we will lose 3rd place and finishing 5th is inconcievable to me.
Bring me Coppa Italia and you'll silence my critics Roberto Mancini!
an unlucky game as we usually saw in the first stages of the seaoson. Inter try everything, they hit the post then they conceded a goal. anyway 3rd place is ours , good luck to messina, ironically we last lost to lecce last May, that game they made sure of salvation and this time its Messina who are nearly again in Serie A next year with this win..
will post my captured highlights in approx. 1 hour
will post my captured highlights in approx. 1 hour
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This is the statics from inter.it. I think that it says something.
I think that it shows something very clear. Our defence is rubish. Our mids were good, also J.Z and Cordoba did well. We have a first class squad but our defenders except J.Z and Cordoba (Burdisso aside) aren't up to this squad. Our defence is at last a 3rd class one. It's true that half of our defence are good and reliable players but the bad performances of the other 2 players has affected Cordoba and J.Z's good performances. Put yourselves in Mancio's shoes. That's a pity that he has to take the responsibility of the mistakes that have been done by others.
It's not fair to ask Mancio for the Scudetto and the CL with defenders like Matrix, Miha, Gammara, Favali and even Coco. Also a GK that hasn't been consistant this season. We have to fight with clubs with great defences. For example Milan attack the Scudetto with Stam, Nesta, Maldini and Cafu and also Dida. And still they are going for Jankolovski for the next year. Juve has, Canavaro, Thuram, Zambrotta and Zebina.
We have scored the most goals this season and just if we have conceeded less goals we were at the first place by now. Give Mancio a great CD, LB and GK then ask him for the Scudetto. Don't blame him. This defence won't get us farther than now.
Messina Inter
5 Tiri in porta 11
5 Tiri fuori 11
20 Falli fatti 16
3 Corner 12
1 Fuorigioco
27:16 Possesso palla 36:02
I think that it shows something very clear. Our defence is rubish. Our mids were good, also J.Z and Cordoba did well. We have a first class squad but our defenders except J.Z and Cordoba (Burdisso aside) aren't up to this squad. Our defence is at last a 3rd class one. It's true that half of our defence are good and reliable players but the bad performances of the other 2 players has affected Cordoba and J.Z's good performances. Put yourselves in Mancio's shoes. That's a pity that he has to take the responsibility of the mistakes that have been done by others.
It's not fair to ask Mancio for the Scudetto and the CL with defenders like Matrix, Miha, Gammara, Favali and even Coco. Also a GK that hasn't been consistant this season. We have to fight with clubs with great defences. For example Milan attack the Scudetto with Stam, Nesta, Maldini and Cafu and also Dida. And still they are going for Jankolovski for the next year. Juve has, Canavaro, Thuram, Zambrotta and Zebina.
We have scored the most goals this season and just if we have conceeded less goals we were at the first place by now. Give Mancio a great CD, LB and GK then ask him for the Scudetto. Don't blame him. This defence won't get us farther than now.
Messina Inter
5 Tiri in porta 11
5 Tiri fuori 11
20 Falli fatti 16
3 Corner 12
1 Fuorigioco
27:16 Possesso palla 36:02
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FIF Special Ones
10 years of FIFprimo-inter said:
Very good post primo_inter.
Inter and all these coaches under Moratti, many people wonder why, and consider Moratti a moron for all those changes.
But hey guys, many here would have done just the same! I know, you're gonna say "I don't want Inter to sack him". Still, whenever we lose, it's always his fault.
The assumption today is: Mancini used a different team = Inter lost.
Says who? What about players mistakes? Missed chances? Opponents value? Nope, none of these seem to ever apply.
If all the fans reacted like you, Manciini would never have any support. Wins are rarely thanks to him, and all losses are totally his fault. Try and read some of the past threads if you want proof.
Surely, I'm a Mancini fan and I always defend him. But hey guys! The way you react to games is getting more and more "Zzang-like"!
Mancini is at fault for us losing today? And for us losing the derbys? Yeah right.
Mancini is at fault for our wrong transfers? Year right. Whatever.
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1. FORZA ZZANG! :star:
2. It's not like I have critized Mancini more than 5 times this season... When it's due even Mancini should face the critics. Players are to blame as well.
3. But even if you sent Materazzi and Mihajlovic on a training camp in Uruguay for a couple of months with Capello and Mourinho you wouldn't see much of an improvement in their truly spectacular defensive partnership!
2. It's not like I have critized Mancini more than 5 times this season... When it's due even Mancini should face the critics. Players are to blame as well.
3. But even if you sent Materazzi and Mihajlovic on a training camp in Uruguay for a couple of months with Capello and Mourinho you wouldn't see much of an improvement in their truly spectacular defensive partnership!