Inter - Frosinone (22 Nov 15) [4-0]

[Dylan]

The attendance was 37,469

Fairly disappointing imo given the kick off time and our position in the table

Playing against one of the smallest teams in the league, still the highest attendance for home teams facing Frosinone all season.

 

[bandiera]

I think the way we've used the squad thus far is very sustainable. Mancini is building a squad and a team not just a XI. I think he's played it perfectly thus far. He's kept the dressing room happy while making it clear that no one is indispensable. We have a good healthy competition for each position, that's not possible when you only play the same XI or use 13-14 players all year.

He's kept the dressing room happy, but it's still November. He won't be able to motivate such a large squad for the entire season. Top teams rotate because they have to deal with 50-60 games/season so even if we qualify for Europe, Mancini needs to change things because he can't rely on having 22 starters in the squad. Even if that was possible and everything works perfectly this season, it isn't viable to rotate top players we would presumably spend lots of money on if we placed 3rd or higher, because at the end of the day every player isn't equal. We also don't have a style of play so it's confused to compare us to Ferguson's United.

I also agree with Kazaan about the need for our players to share regular time together and develop an understanding, our attack is all about individual talent and confidence.

 

[thatdude]

Thats pretty much mourinho ways, great first two season and collapse at third year due to player exhausted and the opponent team already have a way to shutdown the same line up.

Yeah I generally agree with you, however I believe his poor third year has more to do with training methods than lack of rotation but I'll save that comment for another time.

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He's kept the dressing room happy, but it's still November. I don't think he'll be able to motivate such a large squad for the entire season. Top teams rotate out of necessity because they have to deal with 50-60 games/season so even if we qualify for Europe, Mancini needs to change things because he can't rely on having 22 starters in the squad. Even if that was possible, it isn't viable to rotate top players we would presumably spend lots of money on, because at the end of the day every player isn't equal. We also don't have a style of play so it's a bit confused to compare us to Ferguson's United.

I also agree with Kazaan about the need for our players to share regular time together and develop an understanding. After all, our attack isn't well organized and it's all about individual talent and confidence.

See the highlighted part? I did everything in my power to make it clear that I was not comparing us to SAF's United and yet you ignored that. I said twice that becoming a team that's interchangeable like that is the DREAM. It's the pinnacle not the reality.

Please don't confuse rotation with 22 starters. That isn't the point. We still have obvious starters in this squad. Handanovic, Miranda, Murillo, Medel, Jovetic, Perisic, & Melo have not been out of the lineup unless they were rested. The fact we have also been able to get a lot out of Telles, Juan, Kondogbia, Icardi, Brozovic, D'Ambrosio, Santon, Ljajic, and Nagatomo is a bonus. I don't see how our ability to dip into our squad and continue to get consistent performances and results can be looked at as a negative.

I fully understand we don't have a 3rd competition this year, but the fact we can rotate while still having one less competition just further lends to that advantage. We were able to rest Brozovic, Medel, & Perisic on Sunday and still get the required result. Now we have a full week to prepare for the match while Napoli has to worry about EL. For me that's fantastic.

 

[bandiera]

Yeah I generally agree with you, however I believe his poor third year has more to do with training methods than lack of rotation but I'll save that comment for another time.

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See the highlighted part? I did everything in my power to make it clear that I was not comparing us to SAF's United and yet you ignored that. I said twice that becoming a team that's interchangeable like that is the DREAM. It's the pinnacle not the reality.

Please don't confuse rotation with 22 starters. That isn't the point. We still have obvious starters in this squad. Handanovic, Miranda, Murillo, Medel, Jovetic, Perisic, & Melo have not been out of the lineup unless they were rested. The fact we have also been able to get a lot out of Telles, Juan, Kondogbia, Icardi, Brozovic, D'Ambrosio, Santon, Ljajic, and Nagatomo is a bonus. I don't see how our ability to dip into our squad and continue to get consistent performances and results can be looked at as a negative.

I fully understand we don't have a 3rd competition this year, but the fact we can rotate while still having one less competition just further lends to that advantage. We were able to rest Brozovic, Medel, & Perisic on Sunday and still get the required result. Now we have a full week to prepare for the match while Napoli has to worry about EL. For me that's fantastic.

I didn't ignore it, I know you didn't say that "SAF did it, so we can try to do it this season". I just think it's an unrealistic thing to aspire to with a coach that doesn't have a style of play. The only way that can happen is if we fire Mancini.

We still have obvious starters, but we also have a lot of rotation that isn't driven by fatigue. Telles, Juan, Icardi, Brozovic, Biabiany, Ranocchia, D'Ambrosio, Santon, Nagatomo, Ljajic, Palacio, Guarin are all examples. So along with your list of starters, that's 19 players that Mancini has to deal with. My point is that it will be difficult to keep so many players motivated through the season and I don't think the group is strong enough for it to happen. I'm not saying it's been a negative so far, but I don't see it being viable in the long term.

Even if we didn't rotate, fatigue shouldn't be an issue in November when we don't have Europe (unless we had to deal with a Mazzarri-level preseason). Not having to deal with a 3rd competition is obviously a big advantage over other teams, it should be a big advantage later on in the season.

 

[Javier'sSon]

 

[Shaun]

Playing against one of the smallest teams in the league, still the highest attendance for home teams facing Frosinone all season.

Well, honestly the only side that could beat that total is Roma, and their fans aren't turning up because they're protesting the safety measures, and Napoli. Juventus played them on a Thursday.

 

[Javier'sSon]

There was talk that attendance was lower because of safety concerns.

 

[Kazaan]

I think the way we've used the squad thus far is very sustainable. Mancini is building a squad and a team not just a XI. I think he's played it perfectly thus far. He's kept the dressing room happy while making it clear that no one is indispensable. We have a good healthy competition for each position, that's not possible when you only play the same XI or use 13-14 players all year.

I disagree that Mancini should build a squad with what he has now. Healthy competition ≠ rotation. Mancini should imo use this season to build and play a strong starting 11 and I think he is doing that. Our squad is not good enough for Inter's or Mancini's ambitions. The reason Mancini has been rotating imo is because he is looking for a solid setup, not to keep the dressing room happy. Look who he sold -- he doesn't care about that.

We have only 20+ games left and it's not even December. It would be better to focus on building a strong quality core* and analyze who to buy/sell,keep imo. If we end up among top 3, with 7 or 8 sure starters for the next year and 5 or 6 tried and tested squad players I would consider this season a complete success.

*Preferably with players with the biggest wages because Inter are a business in the end and it would be a sign their investments were smart and used optimally.

 

[Bluenine]

The attendance was 37,469

Fairly disappointing imo given the kick off time and our position in the table

Overall, we are doing pretty well don't you think? Its not just the Serie A table we are leading...

 

[thatdude]

I disagree that Mancini should build a squad with what he has now. Healthy competition ≠ rotation. Mancini should imo use this season to build and play a strong starting 11 and I think he is doing that. Our squad is not good enough for Inter's or Mancini's ambitions. The reason Mancini has been rotating imo is because he is looking for a solid setup, not to keep the dressing room happy. Look who he sold -- he doesn't care about that.

We have only 20+ games left and it's not even December. It would be better to focus on building a strong quality core* and analyze who to buy/sell,keep imo. If we end up among top 3, with 7 or 8 sure starters for the next year and 5 or 6 tried and tested squad players I would consider this season a complete success.

*Preferably with players with the biggest wages because Inter are a business in the end and it would be a sign their investments were smart and used optimally.

But the thing is we do have a core. If you see my response to Bandiera above you'll see that I mentioned the players that are guarenteed starters for us unless they're injured or being rested. That's our core. I disagree that our squad is not good enough for Inter or Mancini's ambitions. Our ambition if you believe what is said in the press is 3rd place. I don't see how this squad is not capable of that especially when you take into account we're without a European competition.

I think Mancini was done a fantastic job thus far with individual man management and squad management. I think the primary thing we need to focus on is not fucking it up by doing too much in January. Rotation doesn't necessarily equal healthy competition, I can agree on that statement. However I think Mancini's rotation thus far has bred a healthy completion for the fullback spots for example. I think every year we should be looking at who we want to keep and who we want to sell because that's what keeps teams from becoming stagnant, that's not just something we should focus on this year.

Again I think that we should have a best XI that we can rely on for the bigger games, however I don't see anything wrong with the way Mancini has been using the squad thus far. Nor do I see how its unsustainable.

 

[Kazaan]

But the thing is we do have a core. If you see my response to Bandiera above you'll see that I mentioned the players that are guarenteed starters for us unless they're injured or being rested. That's our core. I disagree that our squad is not good enough for Inter or Mancini's ambitions. Our ambition if you believe what is said in the press is 3rd place. I don't see how this squad is not capable of that especially when you take into account we're without a European competition.

I think Mancini was done a fantastic job thus far with individual man management and squad management. I think the primary thing we need to focus on is not fucking it up by doing too much in January. Rotation doesn't necessarily equal healthy competition, I can agree on that statement. However I think Mancini's rotation thus far has bred a healthy completion for the fullback spots for example. I think every year we should be looking at who we want to keep and who we want to sell because that's what keeps teams from becoming stagnant, that's not just something we should focus on this year.

Again I think that we should have a best XI that we can rely on for the bigger games, however I don't see anything wrong with the way Mancini has been using the squad thus far. Nor do I see how its unsustainable.

Do you think our bench players could beat Frosinone away for example? Rano Vidic - Santon Dodo - Gnoukouri Bro KDog - Palacio - Ljajic Manaj

My initial post was not about Mancini because, for once, I like with what I think Mancini will soon do -- select and stick to his starting 11 for all upcoming Serie A games, especially if we lose few points. He wants results and once he finds a winning formula that's it.

I was arguing against rotation this season, because there are no adequate rotation options for those you mentioned and there are too few games to do it. No need to waste scarce game time on players Inter are going to sell or on players who will not fight for a first team place next year.

Re core, I think we have a clear hierarchy of quality, a food chain, but not core imo. Until recently we were wondering whether Ljajic will even stay until January or can Guarin be benched. Jovetic and Icardi have yet to have 1 normal exchange on the field.

Regarding ambitions, I should have been clearer -- I meant long term goals they set for themselves. At some point in time Mancini and Thohir will want to fight for the title, if Mancini stays. This squad, with European commitments, would not be able to do it and keep up with Roma, Juve and Napoli.

 

[thatdude]

I never said our bench players could beat Frosinone away, and I'm not talking about playing a B team. Im talking about exactly what we saw on Sunday where we were able to rest Medel, Brozovic and Perisic. That's 3 potential starters we were able to save for Napoli, that's the type of rotation I'm referring to. Not playing Dodo, Rano, Manaj, and Palacio all at once. That would be asking for trouble.

I don't think Mancini is wasting space on players who have no future here. Dodo and Montoya are perfect examples of that, Vidic may also be added to that list but we'll see when he returns from injury. I agree we will have to sell some surplus players and continue to improve the squad if we want to fight for a Scudetto and be in CL consistently, but Mancini using the squad we have available at the moment to get us there is the best thing.

Side note: it also makes our surplus players more sellable. That should never be our primary reason for playing a player but it's just a fact.

 

[Wings]

just noticed the title of the poll

 

[Kazaan]

@thatdude

What I argue against is not what Mancini is doing, since I don't think he is rotating, but searching for the best setup. Nor do I think Mancini was resting Medel, Bro and Perisic, because Napoli was 8 whole days away and at this point in their careers 3 or 4 days to recuperate is enough. 8 days is actually too much. In a season like this your plan would result in Kdog/Bro/Medel/Melo playing a competitive game every 14 days.

 

[thatdude]

Yeah but that hasn't been the case nor will it be. Our core don't have to go 14 days without a game, and most of our team haven't besides some fullbacks where we are over admittedly over stacked. It's obvious the reason we keep on scheduling these friendlies with Milan is too avoid our players going 3 or 4 weeks without a game. We're basically setting up our own reserve league as we go just to give minutes to players who haven't played in a couple weeks.

I actually agree that Mancini is not 100% set on what he wants his lineup to be. However I don't see how you can say we weren't resting Perisic & Medel. Brozovic and D'Ambrosio I'll give you because they aren't sure starters but there's no reason to believe Medel and Perisic aren't. They weren't benched for poor performance of because Mancini thinks the players he played yesterday are better IMO thus it can only be considered rotation.

 

[Javier'sSon]

I believe Mancini changes his formation/set up for the same reason he changes certain players, to counter the opponent team. Not to rest or rotate.

 

[thatdude]

I think there's some truth in that too. I think it's a multitude of factors. Either way I think he's managing the squad very well.

 

[thatdude]

Ljajic and Biabiany vs Frosinone.

 

[Universe]

Shaun is the bandiera of stadium attendance numbers.

 

[militoscores]

i think kondogbia does alot of that many dont see, he helps us win ball back so much just by being in the same vicinity.