General Football Debates

[brehme1989]

World Cups in general are corrupt.

1934 was a bit corrupt, for example, similar to the 1998 where they fixed the draws to get tough games for contenders in the first round (all KO) and have less competition, but they didn't fix games.

1966 was extremely corrupt. They even changed stadiums at last minute, changed refs, had dubious calls in at least 5 games and there weren't that many in total.
1978 was very corrupt. Argentina got favored a lot.
1986 was quite corrupt.
2002 was extremely corrupt.

2022 I haven't watched most of, but I doubt it's as corrupt as they say. Maybe they pushed for Argentina and some decisions across the tournament were soft, but it wasn't that bad.

1998 wasn't really corrupt on the pitch. Similar to 2010.

There's always some shady shit going on, but deciding winners doesn't really happen that much.

Ruining games on the other hand and potentially depriving teams of advancing is definitely a sort of manipulation but it happened many times in World Cups. The worst I can think of is 1966 but the English won't allow the media to play that tune as much as it deserves...

 

[delaurentis]

Thanks for your reply Brehme,

Small details decide the outcome of games on this level. When we take the example of Argentine '22 - alot of small decisions went their way. These small decisions mount up and decide games.
In the case of Netherlands vs Argentine - some people (mainly Messi apologists) claim that a game can't be rigged when it goes to penalties. But then they ignore all the wrong decisions during the game that lead up to that penalty shoot-out..

 

[brehme1989]

Of course, don't disagree there.

In 2002 we were deprived of an Italy vs Spain match whose winner would play Germany. And probably beat them.
So Italy vs Brazil or Spain vs Brazil could have been the rightful final.
Imagine Spain going to the final and what repercussions it'd have had they even won. Possibly no "rebuild" instructed with Aragones, no birth of tiki taka and several other rvents that would change the football landscape at international level.

 

[delaurentis]

Of course, don't disagree there.

In 2002 we were deprived of an Italy vs Spain match whose winner would play Germany. And probably beat them.
So Italy vs Brazil or Spain vs Brazil could have been the rightful final.
Imagine Spain going to the final and what repercussions it'd have had they even won. Possibly no "rebuild" instructed with Aragones, no birth of tiki taka and several other rvents that would change the football landscape at international level.

2002 made me realize how commercial interests prevail over football. - Probably the most disgusting tournament I have watched to date.
While I lack concrete, objective statistics to support my sentiment, it remains my deeply held belief that they did everything they could to propel South Korea deeper into the competition, ultimately with the aim of capturing the attention of the Asian market for the football "product."

I don't like to dive into the realm of conspiracy theories, but the circumstances surrounding Lionel Messi's move to the Qatarese PSG and the favoritism he received during the 2022 World Cup in Qatar raise some questions.
The idea of the outcome of a tournament to benefit one individual player seems puzzling. Messi undeniably stands as one of the most commercially interesting figures in the world of football, seemingly immune to criticism. Consequently, Qatar may be forever linked to Messi's triumph in the minds of many....

 

[crzdcolombian]

@crzdcolombian tell us how you feel about Van Gaal's comments

I think the last 3 have been rigged in their favor. Super easy road to the finals. Easy calls but at the same time. Other than Spain who got lucky felt like the all the winners won because they got BS calls in their favor. Last team to win because they were that much better was probably France in 98 tho heard they might have posioned fat Ronaldo haha

the other winners got a few calls here and there but fking Argentina would get a PK a game in the time of VAR it just blows my mind.

Coaches need to be able to challenge yellow, reds, Pks. For them to go back to VAR maybe 3 times a game or per half like in the NFL. Will slow the game down a little but this clear favoritism bullshit needs to end. Or the 9-12 minutes of added time? Did a terrorist come and stop the game? Did half the players get diaherria and have to go poop. WTF are they adding 10 minutes to the end of the game when the "smaller team" is winning or tied?

 

[pupivn]

Some also made arguments that Brasil’s 2002 was a repayment for 98, in which France was favoured with that controversial event before final. That Brasil - Turkey match was focused point. Moreover, Brasil’s power also has been declined since Havelangle’s out.

 

[wera]

Japan replaced 10 starters against Germany and Turkey and won both games.

And scored 4 goals in both games

 

[wera]

Very important video for people that don't understand why some players just work better in certain systems.

 

[wera]

This is beautiful.

 

[pupivn]

I thought it’s Matrix for a second from the thumbnail LOL

 

[_OC_]

33% of these European Quarter finals going to penalty shootouts has just reaffirmed me the assertion that getting rid of the away goal rule was a bad move.
It's bad sporting-wise; no one can convice me that going away to a hostile environment, battling that and scoring 3 goals (to the opponents 3) is the same sort of 'accomplishment' as the other team then going to your ground and scoring 0 to your 0 - the impetus should be on them to equal or better you with the shoe on the other foot. Managed to sccore a goal and got a clean sheet on your own ground? It's the exact same as your opponent conceding one in front of their home fans, but scoring two. I don't see it.

It's also bad for drama; nothing's balanced on a knife edge anymore. Concede? Well, just go up and score another, no worry, plenty of time. The result in the reverse fixture? Doesn't matter, all that matters is if you've scored the same amount of goals when all is said and done. You won't really have the one deciding goal in a tight game, that was dependent on what happened in the last game. That "Paaaaandeeeeev" in Munich the dying minutes of the game? Yeah, just extra time lads, and an extra 30 minutes for the favorites (Bayern) to pull through in front of their home fans.
Now you see a lot of teams just lulling through extra time, because they don't have the energy left to do much (this isn't new, but it's part of the appeal that we don't see it often), and the incentive to just get to penalties is worth its weight in gold.

It's also bad for the spectacle; a penalty shoot is something unique, a personal battle between just kicker and keeper, with everyone holding their breath before every step-up, and most importantly, it happens very, very seldom. Real, being mainstays and serial winners in the competition last were in a penalty shootout in 2016, and that was in a one-off game in the final against Atletico. Now you'll probably see them in one every season. The uniqueness will be taken away from the penalty shootout - it'll be just another "thing" in a modern football world filled with sanitized and standardized "things".

Maybe even more importantly, it's bad for the players. In an already ultra-congested and demanding football schedule, here's an extra 30 minutes here and there sprinkled for you, now shut up and run through that cramp.

All that, gone, in a clear cash grab attempt because of that extra TV-money for commercials you can cram into that thirty minute space.

Shame.

 

[brehme1989]

give us back the golden goal

 

[Kramerica Industries]

give us back the golden goal

As a hockey fan, I cannot recommend this hard enough. Whatever it takes to make the golden goal feasible...the NHL playoffs are about to begin here in North America, and there is nothing in sports more dramatic than sudden death overtime in hockey.

 

[wera]

Yeah I like Golden goal too. But I think getting rid of away goal was a good idea. We've lost more ties from away goals than we've won them. =)

 

[Fitzy]

I like away goals, especially in the context of football. The travel, atmosphere, etc.

It'd be nice if we actually benefited from it at some point.

 

[wera]

Said he almost played for us, but Inter chose Brehme.

 

[brehme1989]

Said he almost played for us, but Inter chose Brehme.

*it was Klinsmann

At least that's what he said last time.
But iirc we had Ramon Diaz. Klinsmann came the year after, we already had Matthaus and Brehme from 1988.

Klinsmann did not win Serie A with us. Uefa Cup, though.