2010/2011 Manager rumours thread

What should we do about the rafa situation?


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s3b

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From Times Online
June 3, 2010

One battle has been lost. Now Anfield must begin fight for its very soul

Tony Barrett

The beginning of what appears to be the end for Rafael Benítez also marks the start of a summer that threatens to be one of the most painful — and will undoubtedly be the most pivotal — in the modern history of Britain’s most successful football club.

All that stands between an avalanche of obituaries on Benítez’s Liverpool career is the outcome of negotiations that will determine whether the club can muster the necessary financial muscle to convince the Spaniard to walk out of the Shankly Gates for one last time.

For once, their monetary weakness may prove their strength. Having had his purse strings tightened in the past three transfer windows, Benítez knows better than most just how scarce ready cash is at Anfield and he will have to pitch his expectations accordingly.

He also knows that support within the boardroom for his regime has evaporated and that there are those in the dressing room who have been so underwhelmed by his performance over the past year that they would not shed any tears if he departed.

Benítez often likes to talk of his love for a fight, a trait he admires in the people of Liverpool, but this is one battle that seems beyond him.

That discussions over a golden handshake have already taken place means that for Benítez to be in charge next season would require a comeback every bit as miraculous as the one that marked the greatest night of his career, when Liverpool defied logic and the might of AC Milan to lift a fifth European Cup in Istanbul in 2005.

The anniversary of that never-to- be-forgotten night passed last week and Benítez marked it by dancing on stage at a performance of the One Night In Istanbul show at the Liverpool Empire. At least now he will know that his days as a limbo dancer are almost at an end.

All that remains is for agreement to be reached on the terms of his departure and he will be free to take up a post at another club, with Inter Milan seeming the most likely destination.

It says everything about Liverpool’s present predicament, though, that even a change of manager will prompt more questions about a club who have lost direction and are in danger of losing their self-respect under the ownership regime of Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr.

The first conundrum is: who in their right mind would take the Liverpool job? It used to be one of the greatest positions in English football, but now a manager would have to be prepared to take on the running of a club riddled with debt, that are for sale, that have no significant transfer budget, a squad in need of an overhaul, and where the only certainty is endemic uncertainty.

Then there is the playing staff. It has long been mooted that the only way to guarantee that the likes of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard will remain at the club would be if Benítez goes. The coming weeks and months will prove or disprove such theories. But one thing is certain — should Benítez’s replacement not live up to the kind of exacting standards laid down by the world’s best players, they will find a club that does boast such a manager. And, with José Mourinho’s Real Madrid pursuing Gerrard and Carlo Ancelotti’s Chelsea keen on Torres, Liverpool will have a big job on their hands convincing their crown jewels to stick around regardless of who is eventually appointed.

The ideal scenario would be for a benevolent billionaire who grew up with pictures of Kevin Keegan and Kenny Dalglish adorning the walls of his Middle Eastern home to pop up and take the club off the hands of Hicks and Gillett, before paying off their £351 million debt and starting work on the new stadium in Stanley Park.

Unfortunately, it has been some time since Liverpool last inhabited an ideal world, so all their fans can do is limp on with anything but hope in their hearts. It would be an exaggeration to suggest that this is a nadir for a club who have been involved in two of the worst disasters in the history of the game, but, equally, it would be underplaying the situation if it is not described as one of the most painfully testing periods Liverpool have endured.

Blame for their present plight will be apportioned, fingers will be pointed and the recriminations will flow with all the incessant regularity of Torres’s goals — this, after all, is the new Liverpool way. Gone are the days when the chances of the club’s dirty linen being washed in public were slimmer than the hopes their rivals had of overhauling them.

That is unless a unifying force can emerge from the rubble of this decaying club and pull all of the factions together for the greater good. The presence of Hicks and Gillett makes it hard to see that happening, but the prize at stake — the salvation of Liverpool Football Club – is such that anyone who did so would be afforded legendary status.

For the past 20 years Liverpool have gone into each and every summer desperate to reclaim their status as English champions and each and every time they have failed in their mission.

This time around the situation they are facing is much more extreme and the challenge confronting them even more critical as they bid to reclaim both their soul and their sense of direction. Failure on these fronts does not even bear thinking about.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7143026.ece
 

spiderninja

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this will be inter's new formation next season with rafa


--------------------------Guiza----------------------

-----Mata--------------Sneijder---------LuisGarcia

-----------------Cambiasso-------Lucas-----------

--Capdevilla----Marchena-------Lucio----Arbeloa

---------------------------J.Cesar--------------------
 

Gano

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Yeah, having Lucas in midfield ? I don't know whether my heart would handle it :rollani:
 

Jnr

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Oriali on Benitez : He is very kind to us. Remember Istanbul?

How sharp is that?

Anyways here are all the transfer list in Liverpool under Benitez

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp
 

il Biscione 84

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benitez seems to be a better option than miha or zeman :p I still haven't lost hope in seeing hiddink in our bench! :(

p.s. Spiderninja, are you serious?! lol lucas? arbeloa? guiza? AND Luis Garcia?! hell no way!
 

AndyLT

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So Rafael Benitez is set to walk, or be pushed, through the Shankly Gates as it looks as though his Liverpool reign has come to an end.

Despite a European Cup success and an FA Cup success, both won since Arsene Wenger last delivered a trophy to Arsenal's trophy cabinet, the 50-year-old Spaniard has faced a torrent of inexplicable pressure from the media, ex-players and other 'expert' commentators on his contribution to the Merseyside giants.

Zonal marking and wasteful expenditure in the transfer market are two of the sticks with which Benitez was regularly beaten. But how much of it is genuine criticism and not a load of hot air?

The denunciation of zonal marking reminds me of a time when English pundits laughed at and mocked continental goalkeepers for opting to punch clearances instead of claiming the ball in a commanding strong-arm fashion. Or the days when football formations were 4-4-2 v 4-4-2. Nowadays, punching clearances is the norm. 4-4-2 is a standard long since deviated from. Times change.

New ideas, so wrong at first, are slowly, although reluctantly embraced - the zonal marking system will be too, eventually. Whether you are pro or anti-zonal marking, it didn't stop Liverpool winning those two trophies, or finishing second in 2008-09. So it obviously isn't the flawed system the ignorant proclaim it to be. It does work.
Let's then explore the transfers. Over 150 between comings and goings in five years does seem a large number. Compared to other clubs? Manchester United, the benchmark in English football, released or sold upwards of 75 players during the same period so it appears normal.

Excluding those players signed by Gerard Houllier, Rafael Benitez's transfer record is far more impressive than we have been led to believe by the agenda-driven onslaught of misguided criticism levelled at the Spaniard.

Examining the figures closely actually shows that the net cost of the players bought by Benitez and later sold is virtually non-existent, in fact there is possibly even a small profit when you take into account the small army of free transfers the former Valencia man has acquired.

No doubt Robbie Keane was a failed transfer. Benitez's fault? We assumed so at the time but we have since learned that Keane wasn't a player the Spaniard wanted - not without Gareth Barry in the mix at least.

Andrea Dossena was an undeniable flop, with one momentary exception at Old Trafford, and a sizeable financial loss. Jermaine Pennant too, the heaviest in fact. Fernando Morientes, yes, another failure in the transfer market on the part of Benitez. So in terms of players he bought that have since departed, three absolute disasters in six years, with a total loss of £14.5 million can be attributed to Rafael Benitez.

In that time, Manchester United brought the likes of Owen Hargreaves, Anderson, Michael Carrick and Dimitar Berbatov into their ranks, with a total value of in excess of £75 million. Perhaps not deemed complete failures yet but it's proof that even the best make transfer blunders. Juan Sebastien Veron, Louis Saha and Eric Djemba-Djemba are further examples of that from days gone by.

Yet at United, such ill-fated heavy spending is masked by the success of a well-established team built on the foundation of the likes of Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville. Benitez's Liverpool simply didn't inherit that base of proven winners. Yet to those proven winners, Sir Alex Ferguson was allowed to add £15 million-plus investments like Rio Ferdinand, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Wayne Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Antonio Valencia. Seven in total, and three costing well in excess of what Liverpool's most expensive player Fernando Torres cost. Liverpool have only ever bought four players worth more than £15 million and one of them left within a matter of months.

In fact if you take out Keane, and Aquilani, who was merely a lower-cost replacement signing and not a major one-off expenditure, Glen Johnson has been Benitez's only big money extravagancy outside of Torres.

Of the players he has purchased that remain at Anfield, I have taken the liberty to apply a conservative current value. Again the dozens of free transfers yet to filter through the Liverpool system are omitted as we don't know the net value/loss that they bring to the club. The figure as detailed below shows that there is a conservative decrease of a little over £5 million in the current value of the players Benitez brought in. That is nothing to do with the likes of Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, who nobody can deny, have improved significantly during the Benitez era.

Player Net Transfer Cost
Fernando Torres £20 m (worth £30m)
Alberto Aquilani £20 m (worth £13m)
Robbie Keane £7 m loss
Glen Johnson £18 m (worth £12m)
Ryan Babel £11.5 m (worth £8m)
Xabi Alonso £19.5 m profit
Dirk Kuyt £9 m (worth £8m)
Albert Riera £8 m (worth £2m)
Peter Crouch £2 m profit
Andrea Dossena £4.5 m loss
Lucas Leiva £6 m (net worth £5m)
Jermaine Pennant £6.7 m loss
Martin Skrtel £6.5 m (worth £6.5m)
Pepe Reina £6 million (worth £12m)
Luis Garcia £2 m loss
Craig Bellamy £1.5 m profit
Daniel Agger £5.8 m (worth £8m)
Momo Sissoko £3 m profit
Fernando Morientes £3.3 m loss
Yossi Benayoun £5 m (worth £7m)
Diego Cavilieri £4 m (worth £3m)
Sebastien Leto £2.5 m profit
Mark Gonzalez £3.5 m profit
Gabriel Paletta Exchanged for Insua (worth £2m)

Net Profit/Loss
£8 m Profit

Net Increase/Decrease (teams value)
£5.3 m Decrease


There is a continued list of players that Liverpool have signed during Benitez's reign that have cost downwards of £1 million that have not made a substantial profit or loss and would not sway the argument in either direction.

On the basis of the transfer activity of the last few years, the fact that Liverpool have maintained some level of competitiveness with the top three at all is in itself an achievement. Benitez has done marvellous work. Sure he's not a transfer whizz like his Arsenal counterpart, but nobody is.

But by the same token he didn't join a club backed by a billionaire owner and add £70 million worth of talent to a squad on the verge of competing for the league title as Jose Mourinho did at Chelsea.

Instead, with restricted funds and without the budget for one-off big money purchases, he has done all he can, all any honest evaluation could genuinely expect - he's taken small steps forward, slowly building an ever-improving side. Sure 2009-10 was a step in the wrong direction, but to make Rafael Benitez the scapegoat for the turmoil at Anfield is entirely wrong.

If, as expected, he moves on, Benitez will undoubtedly continue to excel, more so if he gets the backing the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Benitez and Guardiola enjoy. He's done it in Spain, in England and perhaps next in Italy. What happens next to the wounded, debt-laden Liverpool Football Club he will leave behind is a scary thought.


By Paul Madden
aaa
 

kova9

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Aaaah.. This will be a huge mistake!! We are too good to take Benitez.. Please Moratti..
 

ataturk5

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I know Torres will not come cheap and I don't think anyone doesn't know that. The thing is we will sell Maicon this summer and I don't think he'll go cheaply as we could receive €25-30m plus we still don't know what will happen with Milito because he could also be sold.

My point is that convincing Torres to join us will be easier if Benitez is to be appointed as our coach. It's too early to talk about all those possibilities of course but we can't sell you best players and say "we don't have the cash"... because that sounds like Galliani for me.

Torres would be LESS likely to join inter if rafa goes there,rafa's OWN biographer Guillem Ballegue has already gone on record stating that rafa knows/knew torres+gerrard wanted tio leave if he stayed,so unless somethings changed?
The liverpool echo has hinted that player power(I.E torres,Gerrard,Carra)is the reason he has been made an offer to leave,i.e if rafa stays they will go,who knows maybe they'l still go?
All i know is ive just watched the LEAST football ive EVER watched under ANY manager,its not failing in the lge that hurt(i can handle that),its the dire defensive football that hurt.
Last season was a crossroads for benitez,only 4 pts to gain on utd from the previous season yet rafa ruined our season by buying a crocked italian+an attacking full back who cant defend,he shot himself in the foot! crazy buys when EVERYONE knew we needed a striker!
BTW who changed the page layout? no offence but its nowhere near as good as it was!!:nono:
 
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Gano

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I'm getting used to idea that we will finally get Benitez, so I'm starting to think positive about Rafa and forget everything I thought about him before :D But until the last moment I'll hope for anyone else to take this post.
 

jura

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ohhh no no no!! please do not sign this fat man! he is bad in domestic league and he always signs flop players. He will definitely ruin Inter in 2-3 years. I prefer Pellegrini.
 

jamsieboy86

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I am delighted that Rafa is leaving Liverpool but the fact that he is more than likely coming to Inter is just terrible.
 

CafeCordoba

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Torres would be LESS likely to join inter if rafa goes there,rafa's OWN biographer Guillem Ballegue has already gone on record stating that rafa knows/knew torres+gerrard wanted tio leave if he stayed,so unless somethings changed?
The liverpool echo has hinted that player power(I.E torres,Gerrard,Carra)is the reason he has been made an offer to leave,i.e if rafa stays they will go,who knows maybe they'l still go?
All i know is ive just watched the LEAST football ive EVER watched under ANY manager,its not failing in the lge that hurt(i can handle that),its the dire defensive football that hurt.
Last season was a crossroads for benetiz,only 4 pts to gain on utd from the previous season yet rafa ruined our season by buying a crocked italian+an attacking full back who cant defend,he shot himself in the foot! crazy buys when EVERYONE knew we needed a striker!
BTW who changed the page layout? no offence but its nowhere near as good as it was!!:nono:

Quite different view to the situation here.

http://www.guillembalague.com/blog_...exit+not+a+consequence+of+player+power&id=455
 

Interista Gallese

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As much as I won't be happy to see Benitez come in we have to give him time. I think Moratti is being incredibly short-sighted in not contemplating Deschamps but then Moratti has often been a strange one when it comes to hiring coaches. At least it should be a better appointment than Hodgson who I shudder at the thought of him coming back. Benitez isn't a complete disaster. He's been successful in Spain, and in England he almost won the title and won the Champions League with a club not much bigger these days than Fiorentina and in Italy he won't have a "Manchester United" to contend with as he will be at the Italian version.

The not much bigger than Fiorentina comment is only aimed at winding Jamsie up!!!
 

AndyLT

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there's obviously only one way to decide this

FM coach stats

dgbgf.jpg
 

Inter1991-

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Couple of things which need to be considered when selecting the correct manager at this time

1. Are we looking to sell Milito,Maicon etc and bring in 5-6 quality players in a similar fashion to what was done with Ibra last summer. If the answer is yes then I am not cool with Benitez as he has had a string of in effective signings. If Branca is taking complete control then that's good but what manager in there right mind would agree to having no say in signings?.

2. If we are planning for the same type of squad situation as this year then it is a tactician that is required and it will be more about that coach motivating the players in the correct way.

What I am saying is Inter themselves need to decide what they wish to achieve before looking at the right type of coach.If you are having a guy simply to train the players etc then maybe a Miha/young manager appointment is ok and let branca deal with marceto. If you are going to sell a couple of stars and re build with €100 million in spending you must select someone who is wise in bringing new players together and forming a spirit within the group.

All the above must be properly considered otherwise we could make a huge mistake.
 

ataturk5

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It doesnt really say anything different tho cafe? i KNOW ive read Ballague stating rafa thought players would leave if he stayed? at the time i was hoping it wasnt true,now i dont care tbh.
Did you see the reaction of Gerrard and Torres when he took Torres off at Bham in a must win game?one of utter disbelief!
Nah cafe,im afraid he has lost the dressing room ,ive seen the body language from gerrard all season,and torres the same(when he's played!)
The players have got him to go mate,there has been rumour after rumour here about his relationship with the players,many from reliable sources like the Lpool echo.
 
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Stefan

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Torres would be LESS likely to join inter if rafa goes there,rafa's OWN biographer Guillem Ballegue has already gone on record stating that rafa knows/knew torres+gerrard wanted tio leave if he stayed,so unless somethings changed?
The liverpool echo has hinted that player power(I.E torres,Gerrard,Carra)is the reason he has been made an offer to leave,i.e if rafa stays they will go,who knows maybe they'l still go?
All i know is ive just watched the LEAST football ive EVER watched under ANY manager,its not failing in the lge that hurt(i can handle that),its the dire defensive football that hurt.
Last season was a crossroads for benetiz,only 4 pts to gain on utd from the previous season yet rafa ruined our season by buying a crocked italian+an attacking full back who cant defend,he shot himself in the foot! crazy buys when EVERYONE knew we needed a striker!
BTW who changed the page layout? no offence but its nowhere near as good as it was!!:nono:

Moved to a new server and upgraded the software so its going to take a bit for us to get everything including the page layout how we want.

http://forzainterforums.com/showthread.php?7746-New-Server-and-Upgrades
 
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