Francesco Acerbi

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Nothing came out of it because 10 years ago no one in Italy gave a fuck about racism. At least they've progressed since we have this debacle at our hands now.
What progression? A black person claims something said towards him was racist, therefore it is objectively racist and the supposed instigator needs to be punished without proof?

That's regression in my book.
 

CafeCordoba

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What progression? A black person claims something said towards him was racist, therefore it is objectively racist and the supposed instigator needs to be punished without proof?

That's regression in my book.
Progression is that a debacle arises from a claim made by a player. That someone even cares about racism.

Which you don't seem to give a fuck about.
 

brehme1989

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Ironically modern Italians are victims of slavery (Barbary pirates, ahem ahem) and haven't actually practiced it even in Abyssinia - with the exception of Venetian Republic - yet they're called "white" here whereas in the place where this racial toxicity stems from, Italians were called "brown" or "sicilian" and were banned from ticking the White box :D

And of course the ancient practice of slavery had no racial connotations. Neither does the modern practice, coz just fyi, it's still a thing.

Pffff so can we stop mixing up two separate issues and focus on Acerbi alone?
 
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Progression is that a debacle arises from a claim made by a player. That someone even cares about racism.

Which you don't seem to give a fuck about.
So you've ultimately arrived at "believe accusations of racism no matter what, and punish the supposed perpatrator without needing any burden of proof". Completely wild and dangerous precedent - which we're unfortunately already seeing being practised out in the real world already - but alright.

Because I disagree with that notion entirely doesn't mean that I don't care about Juan Jesus' claims, or I don't want them to be investigated, but there's a process here that ensures Acerbi isn't just thrown to the wolves before we know if he did anything worthy of being punished. If it turns out he did, I'd be in favor of him being punished, perhaps even his contract being terminated. Simple as.
That you can't grasp that seems highly surprising and illogcal, coming from an otherwise logical and calculated poster.

Again; I doubt you'd see it this way, if I began throwing out wild accusations about you without having anything to back it up with - and people wanting you to be punished instantly for it.
 
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Oc this isn’t a court case, he hasn’t been indicted for anything, this is purely a disciplinary dispute between the main organisation FIGC and Acerbi.

They can fire you, hold back the wage and ban you on no concrete evidence. They don’t need the sort of proof that is necessary in court cases.
What the fuck are you on about? Firstly, the case is now at federal prosecutor level.
Secondly, if Inter chooses to fire Acerbi today without anything being proven, that would straight up be a wrongful termination, and Acerbi would be liable and right to sue. I am 100 certain Inter have an addendum in their contracts that means they can terminate people in case of wrongful doing (image loss, et cetera), but we aren't at a place where that's applicable.

To avoid such a situation, FIGC are talking with the involved parties, including Inter, Napoli, JJ and Acerbi, and are trying to gather a understanding of what happened. That's what an investigation is, and it doesn't matter if it's a criminal case or not. You gather evidence to find out if someone was/is in the wrong before you hand out a punishment. If you don't, what you get isn't justice.

What you (and CC), however, are seemingly clamoring for is immediate punishment without proof - and if you think that's just and fair, just because we aren't talking about a criminal charge with possible repercussions of imprisonment toward Acerbi (who would in any case, in that situation, lose his career and with that income and reputation if found to having said something racist) you are a vile person, and I wish the very worst for you.

The so called innocent until proven guilty doesn’t really apply there to same degree as it usually dos in court.

In this case victims word generally are weighted higher than that of the offender.
Even if that is correct, that doesn't mean it's right.
 
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No personal offense, but this is bullshit statement.
I'm Bulgarian, and in Bulgaria there was never any kind of slavery in the past. So, please don't put everyone in the same basket. If you feel guilty that your ancestors did something wrong to the black people, and you seek for some kind of redemption, act whatever you like. But, don't put all white people as a whole, and don't state that all of them should feel guilty or apologize for something, that only some of their ancestors did.
Some people don't know basic things and this guy you replied to is one of them.
 

Meysam

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I think I've figured out why people here tend to go overboard when it comes to racist stuff.

You know, Europeans and Americans had that whole slavery thing going on for ages, and now they're all feeling guilty and trying to make up for it.

But hey, I'm from Iran, and we never had that kind of history. We didn't colonize anyone, so we don't carry that baggage of shame or guilt.

In short, us Iranians view Africans like any other race or nation. So if someone throws around the 'N' word, it's like a normal insult to us.

And you know what? We're pretty chill about insults too. If someone starts dissing us for our race, language, or whatever, we don't make a big fuss. We just handle it and move on.
 

IM21

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gds - Acerbi-Juan Jesus case: tomorrow the two footballers will be heard by the federal prosecutor's office.
 

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So you've ultimately arrived at "believe accusations of racism no matter what, and punish the supposed perpatrator with needing any burden of proof". Completely wild and dangerous precedent - which we're unfortunately already seeing being practised out in the real world already - but alright.

Because I disagree with that notion entirely doesn't mean that I don't care about Juan Jesus' claims, or I don't want them to be investigated, but there's a process here that ensures Acerbi isn't just thrown to the wolves before we know if he did anything worthy of being punished. If it turns out he did, I'd be in favor of him being punished, perhaps even his contract being terminated. Simple as.
That you can't grasp that seems highly surprising and illogcal, coming from an otherwise logical and calculated poster.

Again; I doubt you'd see it this way, if I began throwing out wild accusations about you without having anything to back it up with - and people wanting you to be punished instantly for it.
You need to go back and check what I've written and not confuse it with what others have written. I haven't said Acerbi should be banned or anything like that. I've only speculated what might happen.

Wild accusations here in this case have some backing, the video evidence, the words talked during the match. It's pretty big to just have a belief JJ might have acted the way he did, during the match for a show, out of the blue inventing that okay this guy racially abused me I'm gonna make a scene out of this right now, during the match. And then continue it after the match.

Because that's effectively what you are speculating what if that happened.

Edit. I keep reading your posts and I don't get where are you getting this that I'm looking for immediate punishment. I don't get that part, I haven't said that anywhere.
 

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@Gal
You have not read his contract, so you would have no knowledge of what is deemed rightful termination. As you ironically seem to understand yourself an addendum is likely in place, I think you can be sure there certain things that make it possible to terminate a contract, if Inter dos terminate its because it is possible to do so in accordance to it, otherwise there likely ways to sanction the player, we are talking about Marotta here.
Aha. Inter terminating Acerbi's contract at this moment, solely based on the accusations, would be a wrongful termination. Not only in law, but also morally.

Of course they are talking and noting even watching available material, but they aren’t bound by rules and legislation applicable in normal court, they have handed over sentences on very small grounds before, this isn’t anything like a criminal court case. They are fundamental acting as the legislator, Investigator and judge, they can do exactly what please them. Your free to appeal if you do not agree..
You've pivoteed now where you're talking about the judicial process - which is wrong, since now the Federal Prosecutor is involved - and not if it's morally right. A sporting judiciary works differently to a criminal judiciary, but that doesn't change the wrongness in judging Acerbi before anything has been proven.
The only vile person is a person making racist slur, if Acerbi is found guilty of those accusations with reasonable probability, he deserves to be banned and a contract termination. I don’t think anyone speaks of termination without found guilty within reasonable probability, this is in fact what CC writes.
Not true; here is a certain person outright stating that Inter can't have someone like Acerbi employed, based on this situation alone, before knowing with any specificity what happened;

A club that made so muss fuss out of equality and brotherhood can’t have players like Acerbi without loosing credibility also there several players that are far darker skin than JJ, how do they feel to play alongside a player who might be banned for racist slur.

Had Acerbi been young of age, you could perhaps give him some slack and put him on an educational bench and punish him financially, but we are talking a fully grown man who really should know better, there no excuse when your mid thirties and act this way.

Also do you feel the same when people are fired in their normal day job? Because they are fired just on suspicion alone.
Well, yeah - why wouldn't I if it's wrongful?

@CafeCordoba
You need to go back and check what I've written and not confuse it with what others have written. I haven't said Acerbi should be banned or anything like that. I've only speculated what might happen.
Well, you've effectively called him a liar - and thus, accused him of being a racist/saying something racist, which I would assume would mean you'd want him fired in the long run? - solely and exclusively based on the accusation and follow-up from Juan Jesus:

Acerbi made two mistakes here. First was the one which happened on the pitch. It was already settled with JJ. Second was that he had to go and lie about it afterwards which makes it just worse. Didn't anticipate JJ would call out the lying. It was settled already for him but I understand he doesn't want to pass the lying because it's pretty delicate matter.
Then you doubled down, and said that we should take the victim's accusation at face value, seeing as anything other than that would be victim blaming, meaning we should rush to conclusions and condemnation, taking the side of one of the participants because they're the supposed vicitm.

The logic is: Acerbi is racist/said something racist because Juan Jesus said he was, and that is just underlined by Acerbi saying he didn't say anything racist, then Juan Jesus calling him a liar. Assumedly, you'd want Acerbi fired for being a racist, and you've already arrived at that conclusion in your head.
Yes, we should take the victim's words as face value by default. But then investigate it and come to conclusion. But do not start to immediately question the supposed victim.

That's what you are doing here right now. Taking some earlier case and start to question that and using that as a possible argument for JJ doing this now in a bad faith.

Racism is an issue in Italy, we can all at least agree to that, so the matter is pretty delicate. The culture in Italy is bad in this matter, still. Let alone what it was 10 years ago. You saying that JJ isn't afraid to make accusations in the public sphere as if that's somehow a bad thiing is just fucking disgusting. Reeks of victim blaming.
Then you very eloquently accused me of not caring about racism.

If you claim that you don't want Acerbi fired with the evidence at hand and untill we've had a investigation that proves he said something racist, that's good, and I
agree with you, but you've still morally condemmed him and called him a racist and a liar for something you don't know happened based on the story of one - and one person alone.
Could turn out that you're right in the long run, but it's not 'not caring about racism' to wait for the facts.

Wild accusations here in this case have some backing, the video evidence, the words talked during the match. It's pretty big to just have a belief JJ might have acted the way he did, during the match for a show, out of the blue inventing that okay this guy racially abused me I'm gonna make a scene out of this right now, during the match. And then continue it after the match.
Well, that's not really what happened, is it? JJ outright stated in an interview that they laid it to rest. You want to speculate that there's no reason for him to lie - which I can see why you would say - but I also think it's weird why he would just brush it off afterwards if it was this big, outright racist thing and not just a misunderstanding in the fray of battle.

Either one can be true, or perhaps both at the same time.
 
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I remember the Cavani IG post a few years ago and United players of all races came out to defend him fairly quickly. The longer no one defends him the more I think he’s probably just a jackass who said something he shouldn’t have.
 
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