Inter - Frosinone (22 Nov 15) [4-0]

The egg first or the chicken

Wings said:

I don't deny that's true, but it amazes me that requiring Handanovic to be in action can be considered a sign of a good defense. I'm not making a general statement (like 'our defense has been shit' or 'Napoli for sure have better defense than us' or 'Handanovic is the only reason we have 8 clean sheets'), because on the whole I do think our defense has improved massively from last season. I'm only saying, in the specific games where Handanovic has made a ridiculous number of saves, the defense did not perform adequately.

When Handanovic moved here from Udinese, his goalkeeper coach even said something like 'with the better defense at Inter, you'll be doing a lot less work.' The point about Handanovic's confidence is a valid one, and no one is saying it is bad to have a good goalkeeper, but ideally a good defense should not be resorting to their goalkeeper as often as happened against Roma. (Btw, if confidence is the barometer for defensive security, than the best defense we've had in the past few years was under Strama).

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a

we won ECL, also with a lot of saves from Julio Cesar... it requires certain defensive arrangement so that goalie can work well

Yeah, Julio made some insane saves, especially vs Barcelona and Bayern.

ScottishInterista said:

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/108/Tournaments/5/Seasons/5970/Stages/12770/TeamStatistics/Italy-Serie-A-2015-2016

Seems we have conceded and awful lot of shots on target according to whoscored which seems odd

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It also says that we are 19th in fouls committed per game. Only Bologna commit less. This is with Melo and Medel on our team. :notbad:

Devious said:

The egg first or the chicken

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Science has proven that the egg came first.

Is easy to molest both the Chicken and the Egg at the same time.

RMancini10 said:

Is easy to molest both the Chicken and the Egg at the same time.

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I can confirm this.

Dylan said:

Does anyone have stats on shots faced for a comparison?

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http://www.legaseriea.it/it/serie-a-tim/statistiche-squadre

These are the official stats from Serie A website. As you can see, we are the team with the most decisive saves in all Serie A and the 7th with most saves in general. That is one peculiar stat that describes how we have conceded a LOT in defense in comparison to the 7 goals against we have (Napoli and Fiore have a third of decisive saves than us).

Another surprise is Carpi in these save stats. They are the team with most conceded goals, yet, they only have 7 decisive saves (the least in all tournament along with Napoli and Empoli). Strange stats indeed, but I am going to believe them...

ScottishInterista said:

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/10.../12770/TeamStatistics/Italy-Serie-A-2015-2016

Seems we have conceded and awful lot of shots on target according to whoscored which seems odd

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Handanovic had to make a save every 24 minutes according to them, i.e. 3,7 each game. Only Palermo, Atalanta, Samp and Frosinone's GK had to make a save more frequently. The difference? We have a better GK.

Bluenine said:

Does anyone here seriously think that a GK is not dependent on his defence? That could not be further from the truth. A goalkeeper is usually only as good as the defenders ahead of him - a good defence can do wonders to a GK's confidence and performance. Goalkeepers in that way are not that different from strikers like Icardi (who rely on their team to create chances). A GK relies on his defence to hold their positions and defend them well do that he can focus on the gaps. When a GK does not have confidence on his defence, he will make more mistakes. He will do things like coming out more often on corners/crosses even when he is not sure of getting to the ball first - just because he doesn't trust his defence to deal with it. Great goalkeepers may win you a game or two with an average defence, but 8 clean sheets out of 12? You must be smoking something exotic if you think any GK can achieve that without the defenders ahead of him doing their job very well.

It is not a coincidence that Handanovic looked average last season with Juan+Ranocchia in front of him, and now Handanovic is playing like a God. Its because Miranda+Murillo+Medel+Melo are playing very well too (and that we are literally playing with an extra man in the defensive midfield). Handanovic has confidence on which angles the defenders will cover, and which he has to focus on.

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The way you are defending your argument is very one sided. You are pointing positive things just from your point of view. I can easily win this part of the argument by mentioning Victor Valdes in Barca, who had a great defense, a super strong team full of world class player (top to bottom) and yet that "confidence" that you mention, made him make the most insane retared mistakes in history of football. Im not saying you are not right, I'm just saying that you are only being very biased. 8 clean sheets out of 12 is true and surely can not be only GK's merit, it goes also to a player that wasted time, to the midfield for keeping the ball in our possesion, a technical foul, or a great effort by the CB's... But in our case its been Handa the one that we have so many 3 points from 1-0 wins.

I am amazed that some people think GK's are not a part of the defence. These days all 11 players are part of the defence. But the core of any defence is usually the GK and the CBs. Followed by the FBs and DMs. You cannot exclude the GK when you talk about how good or bad a defence is. He is part of the fucking core. Football is a team game after all.

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Yes and no. Both answers (yes or no) can go a long way. As i said, if i wanna win this argument, simply point a finger at Icardi, and put all the blame on the team because he is not scoring. Because football is a team game, thats why he is not scoring goals.

The game against Carpi, was mostly (80%) merit of Jojo and his last minute shot. Can you put the whole "this is a team sport" in a such individual effort? Ofc you could, by saying "well the dude that passed to him also has a merit on it", but that is me and you nit-picking over our arguments sake.

Also, the GK as much as it is part of the defense still is the most far from it in a modern football. Midfield, forward and then comes the GK in the defending game.

An attacker nowadays runs and chases opponents till his own penalty box, putting pressure in the midfield, forcing them to make a mistakes and disposes thm of the ball.

Midfielder losses the ball near our box or is unable to put stop to the oppositions pressure and we are screwed - still more to do with defense than the GK.

When it comes to the active game the GK is the last one, he is a last resort, when everybody else fucks up, he is there to save, and truth to be told Kevin, we have fucked up as a team these 12 matches alot.

If a teammate (defender, midfielder, or whatever) makes a penalty, and the GK saves it, how is that the defenders merit or a team effort? If the keeper saves sevral one on ones, how a great defending allowed that? My whole argument over this (that handa is the one that is saving our asses from conceding goals), is that Handa has had multiple one-on-ones against our opponents. That is not a "brilliant defense", thats just an OK defense with a great goalkeeper.

Bandiera is stuck in the corner with his agenda of "Mancini relies on individuals" and everything he says takes him deeper into that realm. I am afraid this time he took a poor example to further that agenda. Inter's defence is working well as a collective effort, despite the odd individual error. Not the other way round. Last season when Medel made a suicidal pass in the wrong end of the pitch, it usually resulted in a goal against us. This season when he does that, the other team has to deal with Miranda/Murillo immediately, and by the time they do that there are 4-5 other Inter players in position. Even if there is an angle to shoot at the goal, Handanovic is covering that well. That is how it works.

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I dont knnow about bandiera, but im not saying that our defense sucks, on the contrary, im pretty happy with them given that its only the first season they play together, less than a half season... Im just saying so far we've been saved by Handas individual greatness.

You are right that collectively in defense we are better, i mean light years better than the past, but still, 1-0 wins are not our defenders merit, its mostly Handas, than the teams.



btw, last year we were arguing about coaches and tactics, now we are first place are arguing about what champs argue the most, GK > CB's LOL

I think all speaking our defence and goalie because they can't speak not very prolific our attack, otherwise everybody should speak of a big complete team, but the campionship is long and we have a lot of chance to improve and they are called: Icardi, Jovetic, Palacio, Ljajic, Biabiany and they don't seem trivial stuff. Do you agree?:megusta:

Could you please stop talking about a game 10 days away and get back to the chicken vs egg debate?

Definitely think the chicken was first, don't care what scientists say.

Another hot take: a hot dog is not a sandwich it's a hot dog.

Also a woman is not a woman, it's a man with a womb, wombman

Black Jesus said:

Definitely think the chicken was first, don't care what scientists say.

Another hot take: a hot dog is not a sandwich it's a hot dog.

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I o kno man, it has bread on 2 sides and meat on the center, sounds like sandwich to me

DomesticatedPimp said:

I o kno man, it has bread on 2 sides and meat on the center, sounds like sandwich to me

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Go to a place where they sell sandwiches and hot dog and order a sandwich to see what they give you. Bullet proof reasoning bro a sandwich is a sandwich a hot dog is a hot dog.

The amount of quality posts coming our of this forum has been quite impressive since we started winning.


Can't wait to see the circlejerk arise after a future loss

Loss? You do realise that we're going to 1-0 every game from now on?

Black Jesus said:

Go to a place where they sell sandwiches and hot dog and order a sandwich to see what they give you. Bullet proof reasoning bro a sandwich is a sandwich a hot dog is a hot dog.

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yeah, and before people called certain things different without reason and logic. Open your mind brother, fact is a fact, meat between bread is a sandwich, therefore hot dog is a type of sandwich.

Your reasoning is a fallacy, just because people say so, it doesnt mean it is so

Devious said:

Also a woman is not a woman, it's a man with a womb, wombman

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Time to get sweaty!

Its not wombman for the reason you explained Dev, wo or woe (can't remember which now tbh) used to mean weak like way back when, so wo-man actually means weak man - not saying women are weaker than men just that's how it came about.