Inter's Financial Situation

Tbh the big take away I would have is that if our sponsors had paid and we didn't have debt costs, we would have been approximately neutral. That's a great achievement. Not sure how much plusvalenza went into that number though. We do need to reduce costs though and unfortunately I suspect this summer we only increased.

.h. said:

Tbh the big take away I would have is that if our sponsors had paid and we didn't have debt costs, we would have been approximately neutral. That's a great achievement. Not sure how much plusvalenza went into that number though. We do need to reduce costs though and unfortunately I suspect this summer we only increased.

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the irony is that debts would be lower if Zhang hadn't leveraged the club to keep possession of it and sponsors would have paid if we actually had anyone willing to give money to an Inter led by Zhang rather than their untrustworthy pickings...

brehme1989 said:

the irony is that debts would be lower if Zhang hadn't leveraged the club to keep possession of it and sponsors would have paid if we actually had anyone willing to give money to an Inter led by Zhang rather than their untrustworthy pickings...

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I keep thinking this over and over again. Is it because we are owned by Zhang, there is really no real competition over the spot in our kit? In the middle (the main sponsor) and bottom-left corner (the kit manufacturer). And thus nikes and these main sponsor candidates can just throw these lowball offers and we just have to accept because that's the market?

Milan is getting 30m from Puma and 30-35m from Emirates (okay these arabian airliners always pay extra). Our numbers for this season is 21m and 11m.

As for the plusvalenza, it was 29m in 22/23 season. In the current season, it will be a lot bigger, over double of that.

CafeCordoba said:

I keep thinking this over and over again. Is it because we are owned by Zhang, there is really no real competition over the spot in our kit? In the middle (the main sponsor) and bottom-left corner (the kit manufacturer). And thus nikes and these main sponsor candidates can just throw these lowball offers and we just have to accept because that's the market?

Milan is getting 30m from Puma and 30-35m from Emirates (okay these arabian airliners always pay extra). Our numbers for this season is 21m and 11m.

As for the plusvalenza, it was 29m in 22/23 season. In the current season, it will be a lot bigger, over double of that.

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You're underestimating the number of business that don't want to be associated with doing business with the Chinese.

The fact that we're getting something from Paramount and Ebay is a good sign, but we need new owners if we're going to capitalize on that.

I get the perspective but at the same time it's hardly like we had great deals under thohir or moratti either tbh. Think we just need to come to terms that we are a smaller brand compared to Milan or Juve internationally. Milan obviously won a lot of fans with their Dutch factor in the 90s and Juve even as recently as Ronaldo building rep. Teams that win inevitably boost reputation, and we had a sustained dark spell just as football started globalising

.h. said:

I get the perspective but at the same time it's hardly like we had great deals under thohir or moratti either tbh.

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This was never a thing back then. You're comparing commercial stone age with what we currently have. I urge you to stop doing this because I know you're aware of this and you just want to mention it to make things look good now.

Compare Moratti's Inter to its contemporaries and you'll see that we were a top 5 "brand" in football. We're not that anymore.

So if I understand your perspective

When we were at our best, it didn't count that we were shit because "it was a different time"

And now that we are back on an upward trajectory the fact that we are still shit is.. oh let's blame the Chinese

I wonder if you blame anything on Moratti/think Inter was absolutely perfect until Moratti sold it?

We've always had shit commercials. In many ways it doesn't surprise me that we are behind Milan and Juve tbh. We were dog shit (with some big stars don't get me wrong) during an era where Juve were winning leagues and had very recognisable players, and when Milan were winning CLs. Then Moratti completely failed to capitalise on the treble, we didn't make like a single penny more out of winning the CL than if we hadn't


But it's ok it's all Zhang's fault, it's just coincidence that we've always been shit at commercials except now where we blame the Chinese

What happened to the sponsorships with some random Chinese brands that were paying us millions in return for pretty much nothing? We used to have so many of those kind of deals back in the day

Broseph Stalin said:

What happened to the sponsorships with some random Chinese brands that were paying us millions in return for pretty much nothing? We used to have so many of those kind of deals back in the day

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After the Chinese capital lockdown many of them went delinquent and had to be written off as liabilities. Quite a few were paid as well though, but they've massively reduced. Think our commercia intake now is like half of what it used to be at peak?

.h. said:

So if I understand your perspective

When we were at our best, it didn't count that we were shit because "it was a different time"

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No. That's your sorry to state it this bluntly, stupid, take from what I said.

Because it's stupid, you're not ignorant.

You don't counter what I said with such a remark, you do some research to check the revenue streams of the time and compare them to that of other clubs...

.h. said:

And now that we are back on an upward trajectory the fact that we are still shit is.. oh let's blame the Chinese

I wonder if you blame anything on Moratti/think Inter was absolutely perfect until Moratti sold it?

We've always had shit commercials. In many ways it doesn't surprise me that we are behind Milan and Juve tbh. We were dog shit (with some big stars don't get me wrong) during an era where Juve were winning leagues and had very recognisable players, and when Milan were winning CLs. Then Moratti completely failed to capitalise on the treble, we didn't make like a single penny more out of winning the CL than if we hadn't


But it's ok it's all Zhang's fault, it's just coincidence that we've always been shit at commercials except now where we blame the Chinese

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China is in the bottom 5 of relevant countries that US business want to deal with. And probably in that region for European business, too.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's politics, not "racism" that you so much want to shout. No one has these issues with the Japanese or South Koreans...

Not wanting to do business with/in China is in the top 5 of the lies you tell yourself though.

qb4ever_2k said:

Not wanting to do business with/in China is in the top 5 of the lies you tell yourself though.

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If you're not part of the dance and don't want to listen to the dancers, at least use Google.

I'm gonna look up some data around the sponsorship values from around then, but by the end of the Moratti era we were very very far behind the premiership.

Back to the question I asked though, are there any things you criticise Moratti for in terms of the state of this club? Super curious to get a no BS answer to that. There are probably an easy half or full dozen things I put firmly on our current ownership despite being "broadly" a supporter of them

.h. said:

So if I understand your perspective

When we were at our best, it didn't count that we were shit because "it was a different time"

And now that we are back on an upward trajectory the fact that we are still shit is.. oh let's blame the Chinese

I wonder if you blame anything on Moratti/think Inter was absolutely perfect until Moratti sold it?

We've always had shit commercials. In many ways it doesn't surprise me that we are behind Milan and Juve tbh. We were dog shit (with some big stars don't get me wrong) during an era where Juve were winning leagues and had very recognisable players, and when Milan were winning CLs. Then Moratti completely failed to capitalise on the treble, we didn't make like a single penny more out of winning the CL than if we hadn't


But it's ok it's all Zhang's fault, it's just coincidence that we've always been shit at commercials except now where we blame the Chinese

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"We've always had shit commercials" doesn't quite cut it for me. Moratti didn't care about commercials too much, he just poured in the necessary money from his own pocket, got something from his guy Tronchetti Provera from Pirelli and that was it. After Moratti it was the dark age for Inter so the market wasn't too interested.

I am def buying Chinese argument than just say "we've always been shit at commercials". Of course we've been shit because we haven't done anything for it. Now we try (be self-financing) but we're only getting these shit deals.

CafeCordoba said:

"We've always had shit commercials" doesn't quite cut it for me. Moratti didn't care about commercials too much, he just poured in the necessary money from his own pocket, got something from his guy Tronchetti Provera from Pirelli and that was it. After Moratti it was the dark age for Inter so the market wasn't too interested.

I am def buying Chinese argument than just say "we've always been shit at commercials". Of course we've been shit because we haven't done anything for it. Now we try (be self-financing) but we're only getting these shit deals.

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Let me see if I can dig up the data for us Vs Milan and Juve for early 00s sponsorship. Need to get to a computer, but from mymphonr on Google it looked not too easy to find. The thing is the arguments apply to agnelli and berlisconi as well - and I'd bet we were still quite behind them.

I think we need to be realistic that in terms of international branding we aren't quite on the same level as Juve and Milan - when Milan had Kaka, Pirlo, etc, our absolute best player was probably pre-popular Ibrahimovic for example? Or Zanetti (which is a player who you aren't going to watch in highlight clips) etc etc.

.h. said:

I'm gonna look up some data around the sponsorship values from around then, but by the end of the Moratti era we were very very far behind the premiership.

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It's not just where Inter ranked or whatever, it's how much difference that made.

Under Moratti we were not a stable CL side, not until the early-mid 2000s, which is when CL money started to be serious.
But our main contenders in Italy were competing for the trophy for 10 years between , we weren't.

Others had higher revenues because they sold players (we didn't to a large degree) and in the case of Juventus they had these FIAT related sponsorships, whereas we mostly had capital injections.
And Milan also manipulated their way with commercial revenue with Berlusconi influence and even got better tv deals because he was buying them directly or indirectly.

.h. said:

Back to the question I asked though, are there any things you criticise Moratti for in terms of the state of this club? Super curious to get a no BS answer to that. There are probably an easy half or full dozen things I put firmly on our current ownership despite being "broadly" a supporter of them

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I was often critical of Moratti and was considered one of the most anti-Moratti members here until the period where he hired Mourinho.

He was too stubborn with coaches and either sacked too early or too late.

He wanted so much to pretend he knew football and wanted to make decisions he wasn't fit to make.

He played favorite too much which at times came at the expense of the team.

He didn't do enough to protect the club within the football federation and referee associations, so we were always mistreated and lost at least two Scudetti in 98 and 02 for this reason, and perhaps things would turn out different.

He listened to the wrong people for too long and was very inconsistent and had mood swings.

Is that enough?

brehme1989 said:

China’s Business Environment Is Deteriorating, U.S. Companies Say

More than one-third of companies surveyed say they have reduced or paused Chinese investment in the past year.

www.wsj.com

China Is Full of Risks. So Why Can’t Corporate America Leave?

Doing business in China, once seen as a can’t-miss opportunity, poses a troubling quandary: Reasons to stay can be as compelling as the reasons to retreat.

www.nytimes.com

US firms 'more negative' about doing business in China - BBC News

Five years since the trade war started, American firms seem less inclined to invest in China.

www.bbc.com

Kelly Evans: Why China is turning into a liability for American companies

CNBC's Kelly Evans explains how many American companies are suddenly facing a liability in China, after years of growth and ballooning potential.

www.cnbc.com

US companies in China struggle with raids, slow deal approvals, anti-espionage law

Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said on Tuesday that U.S. companies have complained to her that China has become "uninvestible," pointing to fines, raids and other actions that have made it risky to do business in the world's second-largest economy.

www.reuters.com

American Companies Consider Pull-Out over US-China Relations

American companies in China are as worried about US-China relations as they were when Trump’s trade war peaked in 2019.

techhq.com

Foreign companies are shifting investment out of China as confidence wanes, business group says

A business group says foreign companies are shifting investment and their Asian headquarters out of China as confidence plunges following the expansion of an anti-spying law and other challenges.

apnews.com

US companies see China as ‘uninvestable’, warns Gina Raimondo

Commerce secretary hails reopened communication channels but tells Beijing to reduce risk to businesses

www.ft.com

If you're not part of the dance and don't want to listen to the dancers, at least use Google.

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Lmao, they all want to do business with China, they just hate that it's getting harder to do so

qb4ever_2k said:

Lmao, they all want to do business with China, they just hate that it's getting harder to do so

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They want to do business in China, but not with the Chinese. They have to deal with the Chinese in China obviously, but if they can avoid Chinese out of China, they do it promptly.


Unfortunately sponsoring Inter under Zhang has always come with conditions that relate to dealing with China in one way or another as an aftermath.
People aren't fond of doing that.

brehme1989 said:

They want to do business in China, but not with the Chinese. They have to deal with the Chinese in China obviously, but if they can avoid Chinese out of China, they do it promptly.


Unfortunately sponsoring Inter under Zhang has always come with conditions that relate to dealing with China in one way or another as an aftermath.
People aren't fond of doing that.

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None of what you said in the first paragraph is backed up at all by your news articles though.

Also, re sponsorship, paramount and eBay are two pretty significant American brands. That's a decent win already, you make it sound like we are being sponsored by Thai drinks company or something


Btw am not ignoring your previous reply, will get to it, just on phone ATM and want to do it justice.

.h. said:

None of what you said in the first paragraph is backed up at all by your news articles though.

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No news articles won't be written for this.

The news articles merely confirm that there is a large degree of hesitation to trade in China.
Imagine how it is dealing with China without their big market involved in the process. It's a big red flag; with no stars...

.h. said:

Also, re sponsorship, paramount and eBay are two pretty significant American brands. That's a decent win already, you make it sound like we are being sponsored by Thai drinks company or something

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No, I did say that those two are great companies to start with but they both have incentive to be more relevant in the Chinese market, even at this stage.

But Inter is associated with the Chinese State as long as we're owned by it, so we won't turn the heads of anyone who doesn't want to dance in that tune.

Paramount wants to build theme parks in China and do tv deals with channels there.

EBay doesn't want to be cut out of a 1.2 billion people market just because of politics.

On the other hand, we're not attracting prime sponsors and even so, half of them are dodgy FX trading companies or betting companies and those aren't allowed or are restricted to something like 75k amounts in Italy and can only be "partners". Crypto shit will eventually be part of this umbrella, too. Not sure why they're not already.

If you look at the biggest sponsor names in football, it's airlines from Arab countries, occasionally backing their own investments, german T-Mobile in Bayern which is like our Pirelli, Juventus with Jeep under the same UBO...

Unless you're Man Utd, Barcelona or a popular PL side, you don't get big sponsor deals from "normal" companies. Because no one really invests in football as much as you want to think otherwise. They're washing money in football. Not necessarily laundering in most cases, but they're washing alright.

And those who're doing that aren't aligned with Chinese interests, so we're out of the game. And since China stopped doing that themselves (2017ish), we've gotten the short end of the stick.

Lyon gets 22m a year from Emirates for example.. What are we getting?

.h. said:

Btw am not ignoring your previous reply, will get to it, just on phone ATM and want to do it justice.

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Sure, I know you're intrigued to check