Netherlands - Russia (QF) (21 Jun 08)

NimAraya

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Yeah Denmark was lucky too in 1992 when they failed to qualify to euro1992 but replaced yoguslavia whom was banned from international competitions and then won the tornument!

What do u want to say?! Almost for the really stupid and bizzare way of drawing many good teams fail to qualify, and examples are numerous! So what do u want to say?! Because they hardly qualified then they are not that important?! So you have to say Turkey is better than France, Romania, Italia and even Czech Republic that they've beat in a very bizzare way?! They qualified from very difficult groups, both in qualification and group stage.

Moroniho still has a long way to prove himself because he was just in 2 countries so far, which the last one keeps their coaches for more than a decade! Have u seen or heard any coach complain about the pressure in england?!!!!! HAHA...:lol:
 

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NimAraya, why are you so offensive?

Didn't I just said: "It's irrelevant right now to the form Russia is presenting now" ???

And Mourinho has still a long way to proove himself ?

:D

Wow. I guess what a coach has to do in 6 years to prove himself is much more than 12 cups involving CL, UEFA cup, and twice dommestic league winners for two different teams. I guess there are tons more of coaches who have done more than him in so short period of time. Oh, it wouldn't hurt if we filtered out all the cases with coaches that are/were over 50 either.
 

NimAraya

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NimAraya, why are you so offensive?

Didn't I just said: "It's irrelevant right now to the form Russia is presenting now" ???

And Mourinho has still a long way to proove himself ?

:D

Wow. I guess what a coach has to do in 6 years to prove himself is much more than 12 cups involving CL, UEFA cup, and twice dommestic league winners for two different teams. I guess there are tons more of coaches who have done more than him in so short period of time. Oh, it wouldn't hurt if we filtered out all the cases with coaches that are/were over 50 either.

Did I look offensive?!! Then how about people that was treating their own coach like shit, someone whom brought them success that they could only dream before he comes here?! U forgot how u and some other ones here was insulting Mancini like he's a punk?!

I won't repeat myself. I said what was needed to say. And winning micky mouse cups won't make someone special and if has balls then let him show it in Italia! I'm justing waiting to see! I can say winning Euro is more important than CL, so Oto Rehagel that has won it with losers Greece in 2004 is more special than urs that has won CL with Porto!
 

Luka

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Yeah, offensive :p

To me "What do u want to say?! Almost for the really stupid and bizzare way of drawing many good teams fail to qualify, and examples are numerous! So what do u want to say?!" that's not calm :>

Anyway to me looking at things objectively is not ignorance. To me ignorance is looking at plain numbers without all the things behind the curtuin. Like we won 3 straight scudettos, couple of cups, and that's the end of the discussion. That's ignorance to me.

I think I didn't insult Mancini. I was sometimes harsh with him, in a heat of the moment(like Liverpool games), but my points I made there(even that they were maybe a little to hars) still stands, and I will say it now, and in 10 years time too.

The things we said before were partialy just confirmed by players, so why do you pretend everything was in perfect order? Didn't players said the atmosphere was bad, and his comments weren't good for them ?

Why do you ignore the obvious signs that Mancini couldn't keep going like that ?
 

NimAraya

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You moreover some known members were always against Mancini in these last months and kissing Moronio ass like he's jesus Christ, although he wasn't still here and has not done shit yet!

I didn't want Mancini to leave at all, but I mentioned that if he's gonna leave he should leave in a respetcful way, because if you like it or not, he always will be remembered as an Inter legend for his achievements. But even after all that happened you was still supporting this way of sacking him because all in all you were just blind by the orgasm you had with Moroniho and didn't give a damn about Mancini.
 

Luka

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You moreover some known members were always against Mancini in these last months and kissing Moronio ass like he's jesus Christ, although he wasn't still here and has not done shit yet!
We were very hoping he will come. Yes, and? If Messi was about to come to Inter, I'm almost sure you would be acting in the same way(because everybody would). Some people can see why Jose is perfect for Inter, and some don't. Sorry, but it's not my problem. I was very happy when Jose signed for us, and not you, or anybody else can forbid me from being happy. I was rooting for him since Liverpool games, and sorry, but if somebody has something against it, it doesn't mean much to me.

I didn't want Mancini to leave at all, but I mentioned that if he's gonna leave he should leave in a respetcful way, because if you like it or not, he always will be remembered as an Inter legend for his achievements. But even after all that happened you was still supporting this way of sacking him because all in all you were just blind by the orgasm you had with Moroniho and didn't give a damn about Mancini.
Newsflash. Even italian fans were in the end up for Jose, and outnumbered the ones who said they didn't want a change.

I wasn't happy that we had to do it that way, but it was necessary.

And why do you still ignore what I've said. Players themselves have said the atmosphere was not as it should be, and many players were happy Jose came. What else do you need. A popes confession ?
 

NimAraya

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What else do you need. A popes confession ?

thx I'm not into religions. I rather get off this debate as I tried for a while now.
 

shahz_nerazzurri

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Leira - 3rd place in Portugal
Porto - Leagues titles, UEFA, CL, Portuguese cups
Cheslea - LEague titles, English cups, twice in semi final of CL

So now a 3rd place in Portugese league is special??

Just 6 years! He is a phenomenon. And only 45 years old.
He is phenomenon, cause he gives stupid comments, and english media loves him. They can make me a phenomenon, if they want to.
Had he stayed in Porto, would you have wanted him here? No you probably would have said that he only has success managing a small team in a small league.

How many times people were talking here about the trasfers of Jose at Chelsea. Didn't you miss the part where Jose wanted just 1, 2 players in his last year at chelsea ?! It's all the time the same story. Ballack and Sheva, blah, blah, blah.
HE never wanted one or two players. Just that in his first two years, he had an unlimited cheque book, but then Abrahimovic decided to tighten it up.

Also, I'm sure he wanted players for 30 Milion every 2 weeks at Porto too.
Naah, Pinto Da Costa took care of that, by whoring prostitutes all around town.
Hiddink won in 88 with PSV, with a much smaller budget than Porto. And their manager wasnt whoring prostitue all around town. And then in 04-05, Hiddink's PSV once again went to the semis of the CL, with probably 5% of the budget which Mourinho's Chelsea had.

ps. And what does "astute" mean ?
sharp, clever, shrewd etc.

And LOL at the fifth sentence. WTH man ? Yeah, there's never a pressure, when you go to the club, and your first words are "I'm the special one". I'm sure :] The club where Chelsea with Abramovic MUST HAVE SUCCEDED both at national level and international level.

There is never pressure in England at club level from the media or from the fans. Now they have foreign owners who demand instant success. But still, the media doesnt bother you if you are a manager of a club. You can give out quotes like "I am the special one, pls wank over me", and they would laugh. Can you imagine him coming from Porto directly to Inter, and saying something like that? Can you imagine him handling the pressure thats at an Italian club? In England the only person truly under pressure is the NT boss.


Now I'm sure Korea and Australia media were saying before WC that if Hiddink won't deliever them the cup, he is fired LOL.
Well he resigned after each of these tournaments so it doenst really matter. But when you are coaching at international level, you have the whole burden of hopes of the entire nation on you. True suppoters, not glory hunters who dont know anything about the game. You know you dont wanna dissapoint them. In places like S.Korea, despite not having a very solid soccer back ground, people are football crazy. And no more about football, than any idiotic Chelsea fna would ever know in his life.

And maybe Jose wasn't succesfull with every club he coached either ? And the so called "miracles" ? Leira to go to the third place, and I'm sure Porto is winning CL cups on a daily basis.
You cant compare thew miracles performed by the two.
Hiddink performs miracles on continuous bases. Mourinho couldnt even perform the normal task of leading Chelsea to a CL final, ever after spending 80mil pounds every season.
I would like to see Mourinho become the manager of Siena and lead them to CL or something.

but comparing Hiddink, to a 45 year old coach, who is a phenomenon if one would see his coaching steps since.

He isnt a phenomenon, you and other gullible fans just make him a phenomenon. For me and most the of knowledgeable fans, Hiddink is the real phenomenon.

I won't ever deny the fact Hiddink is playing one of the best football a man can watch, but in the end what counts is result.

I dont really care about the style of play. Hiddink has proven record of better results than Mourinho.
 

Luka

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So now a 3rd place in Portugese league is special??
It is if you would knew what kind of a team Leira was at those days. Just take a look at wikipedia. They were founded in 1966.

He is phenomenon, cause he gives stupid comments, and english media loves him. They can make me a phenomenon, if they want to.
Had he stayed in Porto, would you have wanted him here? No you probably would have said that he only has success managing a small team in a small league.
You are stating obvious shahz. What's the point?

If Hiddink would coach some middle table holland team for 8 years, you wouldn't want him either would you?

But Jose DID do well in England, and I can say that he succeded not only with Porto. As to the comments remarks, english media loves him? I don't know. But I can tell you this. No matter what he would say, if he wouldn't succed with Chelsea as he did, he wouldn't be right now in a place he is. He would be a dork, or someone worse. The one who says something is sure of himself, and than fails. That's worse. Instead, Jose by his comments lifted up Chelsea status in England(along with Abramovic) to the biggest force in England, because at one point even Man Utd or Arsenal were seen as inferior.

And AGAIN, he says what he says for a reason for God sake. Just watch the interview of BBC of him and listen to the guy for a minute, instead of just jumping in the anti-Jose hype.

HE never wanted one or two players. Just that in his first two years, he had an unlimited cheque book, but then Abrahimovic decided to tighten it up.
Yeah... Way to go Roman!!! Monsterous deal for Ballack, and 30 Mil pounds for Sheva. Now, THAT has to be some new level of tightening up. One thing Abramovic wants is to make his Chelsea a star team, like Brasil or someone, to have many individualities. What Jose wanted is to have a TEAM, that noone is superiour to others. He knew that after some time, but Abramovic wanted to make some star signing like Real is doing from time to time. He didn't think about the team, he was thinking about himself. And when Jose failed to fit those 2 blocks in a team, he fired him. Way to go Roman!

Naah, Pinto Da Costa took care of that, by whoring prostitutes all around town.
I'm sorry. What that has to do with the transfer policiec at Porto at that time ? Did those prostitues were "hired" to do Roman and at night steal his money, so Jose can make some 30 Milion transfers?

Hiddink won in 88 with PSV, with a much smaller budget than Porto. And their manager wasnt whoring prostitue all around town. And then in 04-05, Hiddink's PSV once again went to the semis of the CL, with probably 5% of the budget which Mourinho's Chelsea had.
Jose won CL with Porto with 1% of Reals budget. Your point ?

Obviously I don't know whether this 1% is right, but I'm curious how do you know that ?

There is never pressure in England at club level from the media or from the fans. Now they have foreign owners who demand instant success. But still, the media doesnt bother you if you are a manager of a club. You can give out quotes like "I am the special one, pls wank over me", and they would laugh. Can you imagine him coming from Porto directly to Inter, and saying something like that? Can you imagine him handling the pressure thats at an Italian club? In England the only person truly under pressure is the NT boss.
I'm sure Grant can say something about "no pressure in press in England". After all, they were all year crapping over him and "his" Chelsea.

Do you listen to yourself Shahz? No pressure from the press. That can say some Division 5 club, not Chelsea. The press is very much alike the fans. If the owner of the club is someone like Abramovich, and your club is tipped to win it all, the press plays along, and when time comes when you flop, the press isn't putting a jokes on the front page. If the press over there is so "easy", where did come this arrogence of theirs against italian and spanish teams?

It's true that in England they usually don't fire the coaches as often as in Spain or Italy, but to say there is never a pressure from the fans or press(in Joses Chelseas case) is absurd.

Well he resigned after each of these tournaments so it doenst really matter. But when you are coaching at international level, you have the whole burden of hopes of the entire nation on you. True suppoters, not glory hunters who dont know anything about the game. You know you dont wanna dissapoint them. In places like S.Korea, despite not having a very solid soccer back ground, people are football crazy. And no more about football, than any idiotic Chelsea fna would ever know in his life.
I never say there is no pressure or something. But you can't tell me that when Hiddinks Korea would flop in WC and wouldn't be able to get out of the group, is the same as if Brasil did the same thing.

You cant compare thew miracles performed by the two.
Hiddink performs miracles on continuous bases. Mourinho couldnt even perform the normal task of leading Chelsea to a CL final, ever after spending 80mil pounds every season.
I would like to see Mourinho become the manager of Siena and lead them to CL or something.
How about let him coach Serie C2 Monza, and demand from him Serie A and CL in 4 years! Come on, lets be reasonable here. BTW, someone told me not to expect Hiddink to be God there, and what you're doing here ? :p

I don't know how many times this whole CL thing we'll get over. Money doesn't mean success. No quality no chance as Jose says. But that's it. A CHANCE, not a freeking guarantese. He did all he could do, and as he said, you can't win it all. Show me an example of coach who is winning CL along with domestic league every 2, 3 years ALL THE TIME. That's insane. Jose lost once to the goal that never came, and the second time in Pens.

He isnt a phenomenon, you and other gullible fans just make him a phenomenon. For me and most the of knowledgeable fans, Hiddink is the real phenomenon.
I hope for our sake you're wrong. I don't know where it comes from. Weren't you the one who was excited when Jose has his press conference? The man didn't even showed what he can do at Inter yet, and you're already thinking the worse.

I dont really care about the style of play. Hiddink has proven record of better results than Mourinho.
That's probably why Hiddink didn't manage a top club since his flop at Madrid I'm sure. That's already 8 years.
 

shahz_nerazzurri

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It is if you would knew what kind of a team Leira was at those days. Just take a look at wikipedia. They were founded in 1966.
Firstly he took Leira to fifth position, and not third. Maybe we should get Jamie Pacheco who took Boastiva to their first title that year.

If Hiddink would coach some middle table holland team for 8 years, you wouldn't want him either would you?
My bad about proper explanation. If Mourinho would have gone to Barca or Madrid, and won two titles on the trot, you still wouldnt have wanted him.

But Jose DID do well in England, and I can say that he succeded not only with Porto.
Give me an unlimited budget, I could have won the league with Chelsea. Okay, maybe not me. But any other dumb idiotic coach could. Just look at what Grant did. If Jose would have not dropped them to 8th place, they would have been champions under Grant.

As to the comments remarks, english media loves him? I don't know.
He gave them quotes, so gullible people can read it, and wank over it.

But I can tell you this. No matter what he would say, if he wouldn't succed with Chelsea as he did, he wouldn't be right now in a place he is.
Success depends a lot on money.

The one who says something is sure of himself, and than fails. That's worse. Instead, Jose by his comments lifted up Chelsea status in England(along with Abramovic) to the biggest force in England, because at one point even Man Utd or Arsenal were seen as inferior.
Chelsea were already something under Ranieri. He took them to second spot, just after one year of spending $100mill. Had Abra stgick with him, and given him another $100mills, he would have won the title.

And AGAIN, he says what he says for a reason for God sake. Just watch the interview of BBC of him and listen to the guy for a minute, instead of just jumping in the anti-Jose hype.
What he says, is what any idiot can say. Most of the managers are too respectful to say that. He is a smart man though. He knows how to make gullible people like him.


Yeah... Way to go Roman!!! Monsterous deal for Ballack, and 30 Mil pounds for Sheva. Now, THAT has to be some new level of tightening up. One thing Abramovic wants is to make his Chelsea a star team, like Brasil or someone, to have many individualities. What Jose wanted is to have a TEAM, that noone is superiour to others. He knew that after some time, but Abramovic wanted to make some star signing like Real is doing from time to time. He didn't think about the team, he was thinking about himself. And when Jose failed to fit those 2 blocks in a team, he fired him. Way to go Roman!
Ballack did very well under Grant. It was Jose's fault that he couldnt stick him in to the team.

I'm sorry. What that has to do with the transfer policiec at Porto at that time ? Did those prostitues were "hired" to do Roman and at night steal his money, so Jose can make some 30 Milion transfers?
He didnt need the money, cause Pinto da costa, was whoring prostitutes to the refs. He was buying refs instead of the players.


Jose won CL with Porto with 1% of Reals budget. Your point?
Hiddink despite leading a team like PSV for just a few years, has had more success in CL than Mourinho.

I'm sure Grant can say something about "no pressure in press in England". After all, they were all year crapping over him and "his" Chelsea.
He didnt give them good quotes. The press were affected by his boring nature, and by their love for Jose. It would only take an idiot to bash Grant, for what he had done for Chelsea.

It's true that in England they usually don't fire the coaches as often as in Spain or Italy, but to say there is never a pressure from the fans or press(in Joses Chelseas case) is absurd.
The pressure in England is much less than pressure in Italy or Spain. The only time one really faces pressure in England is when they become the head of the NT.

I never say there is no pressure or something. But you can't tell me that when Hiddinks Korea would flop in WC and wouldn't be able to get out of the group, is the same as if Brasil did the same thing.
He has the weight of expectations. Every one thinks of him as the miracle worker and he never disappoints. He leads teams to places that no one else. (except for that teams fans) expects him to lead to.

How about let him coach Serie C2 Monza, and demand from him Serie A and CL in 4 years! Come on, lets be reasonable here.
Hiddink can do that. :p Realistically I think Hiddink can take a team like Firoentina to the title.

I don't know how many times this whole CL thing we'll get over. Money doesn't mean success.
Really???? I wonder why Chelsea never won anything before Abrahimovic. Must be a coincidence that they are winning all this shit now.

Show me an example of coach who is winning CL along with domestic league every 2, 3 years ALL THE TIME. That's insane. Jose lost once to the goal that never came, and the second time in Pens.
Fersguson has a better record than him, and so does Rijkaard.


That's probably why Hiddink didn't manage a top club since his flop at Madrid I'm sure. That's already 8 years.
This isnt a very smart point. Why is managing a top club more respectable than managing a country? Just because clubs can make you your fan, and have started making more money, doesnt mean its the real think.
Hiddink likes a challenge, rather than being handed things on a golden platter like at Chelsea or Inter. Hiddink takes on a challenge, like the one at S.Korea, Australia, PSV and now Russia.
He is being paid by these clubs a very good amount. Why should he go back to European club football?


Anyways, I think we are just repeating points after points. You stick to your evaluation of Jose, and I will stick to my evaluation of Hiddink.
 
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snake

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I couldnt be bothered reading the best, both are great coaches..but I must correct two things.




Give me an unlimited budget, I could have won the league with Chelsea. Okay, maybe not me. But any other dumb idiotic coach could. Just look at what Grant did. If Jose would have not dropped them to 8th place, they would have been champions under Grant.

Dude, Jose spent so little compared to Raineri and he won it so convincingly. I dont care what you say, Money does not imply success. Rainieri will tell you, he spent millions on every position and his team wasnt a speck of Jose's.


Chelsea were already something under Ranieri. He took them to second spot, just after one year of spending $100mill. Had Abra stgick with him, and given him another $100mills, he would have won the title.

lol Chelsea werent that good under Rainieri. You can spend all the money in the world, but if you dont know how to spend it on the players you need and how to use those players, you will get nowhere. I.e. Claudio!
 

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Success depends a lot on money.

Well shahz, if you are saying this then how come you hate Arsene so much. For the money he has spent, he has won a lot.
Forget about the feeder mentality, as a coach you can have no qualms with him.
 

Luka

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Firstly he took Leira to fifth position, and not third. Maybe we should get Jamie Pacheco who took Boastiva to their first title that year.
He took them to the third place, there is a mistake. He says third place, and in all the biographys it says it was third and UEFA cup spot. I don't know why they have 5th. Maybe Leiria was involved in some match fixing and they adjusted the table after couple of years I don't know.

But Jose clearly says 3rd in his interview to BBC when he was still coaching chelsea.

And 3rd place was to this day the highest place of Leiria, and the only one they played UEFA Cup.

If Mourinho would have gone to Barca or Madrid, and won two titles on the trot, you still wouldnt have wanted him.
???

Give me an unlimited budget, I could have won the league with Chelsea. Okay, maybe not me. But any other dumb idiotic coach could. Just look at what Grant did. If Jose would have not dropped them to 8th place, they would have been champions under Grant.
Again, all this dumb talk about Grant. Grant is fired! Not even that. He is not linked to anyone, and there were couple of jobs in EPL for taking this year. He did nothing comparing to Mourinho, because he was there only 8 months, and that is nothing to judge the coach for. If he would stay as long as Jose, we would then see how he did.

And this unlimited budget... :> I'm sure you would buy Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka, Ramos, Buffon and such right ? :)

First, money can't buy it all. Secondly, no denial that Chelsea had a lot of money, but so did Man Utd, Arsenal and partly Liverpool(it's not like in Italy for past couple of years), and Jose still won it so convincingly with the record of points in one season. Money can't win you anything if other clubs are also as good as you, and have/are spending, money.

You could probably win it in Italy, I can give you that, just because other teams were so inferiour to ours, and we had the best squad of all. Much better, but in England there were couple of very equal teams in terms of depth and it would be completely different.

He gave them quotes, so gullible people can read it, and wank over it.
Worked as charm didn't it? :) People and press were talking about him, and his arrogence, rather than about the players.

Success depends a lot on money.
Where did I said it doesn't ??? "No quality - no chance". Familiar with the term I already quoted here couple of times ?

Chelsea were already something under Ranieri. He took them to second spot, just after one year of spending $100mill. Had Abra stgick with him, and given him another $100mills, he would have won the title.
Yeah, but he didn't stick with him. In fact he went to Valencia where he didn't do great either, and then it was Parma, and now JuBe, where he pretends he knows what he is doing. It is all just pure guess what you're doing. The facts are simple, that it was Jose who won 2 titles, not Ranieri.

You like to guess? I like too. I can easily say following you in this, that if Jose would take over Ranieri from the start of Abramovich era, he would have won the title right away, not the second place. Like it ? :)

What he says, is what any idiot can say. Most of the managers are too respectful to say that. He is a smart man though. He knows how to make gullible people like him.
Have you watched the interview yet or not?

Don't be limited man. I've read from many milan and JuBe fans, what I just told you about his comments.

Ballack did very well under Grant. It was Jose's fault that he couldnt stick him in to the team.
It was Joses fault? If Roman would buy him 30 new players, it would be also Joses fault he couldn't possibly deal with it ?

Jose is the coach, not Abramovich. No coach in the world, and especialy no Jose, would be OK with doing something against his will, AND after that demand the results.

He didnt need the money, cause Pinto da costa, was whoring prostitutes to the refs. He was buying refs instead of the players.
All the way to the final of CL and UEFA Cup also ?

Hiddink despite leading a team like PSV for just a few years, has had more success in CL than Mourinho.
Please, do tell.

He didnt give them good quotes. The press were affected by his boring nature, and by their love for Jose. It would only take an idiot to bash Grant, for what he had done for Chelsea.
Nobody is bashing Grant of anything. What I'm doing, is bashing people who compare Joses accomplishments to 8 month spell of Grant in Chelsea.

The pressure in England is much less than pressure in Italy or Spain. The only time one really faces pressure in England is when they become the head of the NT.
Again... first you say, there is less presure(with which I agree BTW, but it's still significant amount, just not as much as in Italy/Spain), and then you say the only time... A little contradictory we are here shahz, aren't we ?

He has the weight of expectations. Every one thinks of him as the miracle worker and he never disappoints. He leads teams to places that no one else. (except for that teams fans) expects him to lead to.
You got some point there, but I won't agree the pressure is the same as in the top 5-6 teams in the EURO. Only ignorants would demand Russia or Korea or anyone else to do well basing on his accomplishments. Sure, he was hired because of that reason, but that doesn't mean anything when the real game starts.

ALSO... you think Jose was hired just because he won 2 portuguese titles with Porto? :) Champions Lea.... shhhhhh :>

Hiddink can do that. :p
Ok! :p Bring him on tommorow ! :>

Realistically I think Hiddink can take a team like Firoentina to the title.
I can say the same about Jose.

Really???? I wonder why Chelsea never won anything before Abrahimovic. Must be a coincidence that they are winning all this shit now.
You misunderstood me. I've said money doesn't mean a succes, I didn't say they are irrelevent. No quality - no chance. Money means only a better chance. More money you have - better chance. But a big NO - NO, that money equals success.

Fersguson has a better record than him, and so does Rijkaard.
Shahz, did you read my sentence or you just looked at it hastly?

Ferguson won 2 CL cups over 20 years!!! The first came after 10 years of coaching Man Utd.

Ferguson has a better record, because he is coaching Man Utd for 20 years for God sake. And maybe you forgot it took 5 years for him to win his first EPL title. Do you remember how many years it took for Jose to do the same ?

And Rijkaard. You got to be kiddink me here. Rijkaard won 2 league titles and CL, all with BARCELONA. Jose won 2 league titles with Chelsea, and CL title and UEFA title with PORTO.

In tearms of silverware there is no one in sane mind that would say Rijkaard achieved more. But the one thing you can say here, is exact same thing I've said about Ferguson. Rijkaard was coaching shorter at the highest club level than Jose, so all we have to do now, is just wait and see :) Jose is already coaching Inter after Chelsea spell. I wonder, where will Rijkaard end up. Also Grant for that matter :)

This isnt a very smart point. Why is managing a top club more respectable than managing a country?
It's not. IF, you coach Holland, Italy, Spain, Brasil, Argentina, for example. If you coach Korea, Australia, you mean to tell me, it's the same as coaching Barcelona, Real, Inter, Milan, Man Utd and such ?

Just because clubs can make you your fan, and have started making more money, doesnt mean its the real think.
Hiddink likes a challenge, rather than being handed things on a golden platter like at Chelsea or Inter. Hiddink takes on a challenge, like the one at S.Korea, Australia, PSV and now Russia.
He is being paid by these clubs a very good amount. Why should he go back to European club football?
Hmmmm. He likes chalange... ? I don't know, does he? How can you be sure of this?

Maybe he does like it, or maybe he doesn't. I can say the Monza C2 coach also likes the chalange because he coaches Serie C2 side according to your logic :)

Korea fine, Australia fine, but 3 NT that aren't that prestiguos ? It makes me wonder.

Everybody likes the chalange, but nobody likes to loose, and I didn't hear Hiddink turned down Real Madrid, Barcelona or Chelsea along the way. I don't think it is him who is rejecting the opportunity. I think it is the fact, that opportunity didn't come along. At least, that's what is most logical and probable.

Anyways, I think we are just repeating points after points. You stick to your evaluation of Jose, and I will stick to my evaluation of Hiddink.
I see you aren't that happy with Jose shahz. I thought you were pretty much satisfied with him hired as inter coach. What happened ?
 

NimAraya

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Luka, for sure Josie will be so proud of you for supporting him like this because of just doing one press conference here! I donno if you will be the same when he's struggling here...

One of the main reasons that I support AC Milan or even Juventus in CL is because they stop freaks and heels to win the title to avoid fucking coming compliments about them. I still donno how the hell AC Milan could lose like that to Deportivo to let these freak teams like Porto and Monaco come to the final, so winning that trophy become the biggest thing for Josie fans to kiss his ass!! I donno if Mancini's Inter had the same luck as Porto to get a free kick in 90 minute and score a goal and then we talk about Mancini as a Special here!
 
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Luka

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I don't know how this can be better explained. You all have plain numbers in front of you, and you still act like you don't see it.

You say Jose was lucky in CL? I won't dissagree. You have to be lucky to win a major trophy in a knockout tournament. Either it is CL, or Uefa Cup, or WC, or EURO. What differs the great coaches from one season lucky ones, is the consistency of doing very well in this tournament for a long time, despite not winning it.

Mancini guided Inter for 4 years. In first we got to the quarters and went out against Milan due to the remembered match.

The next year we got Villareal in quarters, that was suppose to be a "piece of cake" to us. Unfortunetly it wasn't. We failed miserably, and played like a dead meat in the return leg, the leg we were suppose to win. Bad luck?

The following year we got Valencia in 1/8. A better team, but still a team that was judged as a side, that Inter can and should beat. The first leg promising, as all the legs at home. And the away game came. We were all full of hope after the first leg, and we felt we had a good shot at it. And what ? And we failed. AGAIN. In BAD Style. Bad luck again? Hm....

And this year. We got the best of those opponents Liverpool. The away game, and we don't exist for first 30 minutes. Literaly. Mancini was saying that we were suppose to just hold off the first wave of Liverpool attacks, as we were "not at home". Well I don't know, but 30 minutes is pretty long time. Anyways we failed again. So... what are the coments of his deffenders? Bad luck again.

I can understand bad luck once, or twice, but those away games were constantly like that, and Inter is too big club to be waiting until we will start to fuckin play the ball outside of home.

Now lets see, what Jose did in Chelsea over 3 years, where he also failed like Mancini. He wasn't eliminated by Villareal or Valencia no.

Once he was eliminated in the semis, where along the way he beaten the widly regarded as one of the main favourites Barcelona, and Bayern, also very strong team. He lost in SEMI final to Liverpool, to the goal that never happened.

The second year he was eliminated in the 1/8th by the eventual winners Barcelona.

The third year he reached SEMIs again, after a win with our "nemesis" Valencia. They have drawn their first home game 1-1, and like us, had to win away from home. But unlike us, scared chicken they fought, despite Morientes scoring in the first half to put Valencia in very good position. Chelsea eventually lost to the Liverpool by PENS, giving Pool incredible hard fight for progress.

Now. If nobody can see the difference here, than I don't think I should waste my time talking to a person like that, because that's just acting dumb to me. I don't know how many times I can go through with it, and nobody actually responding to that, but instead, saying the same things over and over again.

And I was here only comparing the so called "failed" campaigns with Chelsea and Inter. I didn't mention Joses tour with Porto, and also the fact that Joses Porto has beaten Lazio of Mancini in UEFA, big time, by a smooth 4-1 result at home.
 

shahz_nerazzurri

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At some point, we are just repeating the same shit over and over again. I am done with this discussion.

All I hope, is that Hiddink is available next year, when we fire Jose.
 

Stefan

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At some point, we are just repeating the same shit over and over again. I am done with this discussion.

All I hope, is that Hiddink is available next year, when we fire Jose.

We shall see. Time will be the judge. Till then we agree to disagree on this issue.
 

NimAraya

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Luka, We can go on this debate but it gets complicated. Villareal wasn't that "Piece of Cake" that year as they could simply reach final if Riquelme didn't miss that penalty in 90 minute! You see? Events and moments are more than crucial in football. We played first match against Liverpool with 10 players for almost 70 minutes and conceded 2 stupid goals in the last 10 minutes. Against AC Milan everybody saw what happened during two matches. We attack, they get freekicks and score! Against Valencia we attack, Valencia got one free-kick and one corner and scores! I'm not defending what you might think, all I want to say is IF episodes could happen better for Mancini he was more successful than this.

You see, when you concede a goal in minute 1' it's not coach's fault! You still rate Moroniho after his time with porto because he reached semi-finals with CHelsea but Mancini reached quarter-finals with Inter!!!
 

Luka

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1. I already said I know luck plays major part in winning either Cup.

2. Deffending Mancini comes down to saying he was unlucky for 4 YEARS straight. He didn't have even one good CL campaign with us.

3. Every time we were eliminated from CL, we were furious, not because we were eliminated, but HOW we were eliminated.

4. I already said maybe not here, but in other threads, that we are playing well in big games AT HOME. What's the problem are away games. We didn't have a good important away game under Mancini since he became a coach of Inter.

Jose also lost to Pool in pens or by a goal that didn't happnen. Isn't that unlucky also? But compare their exit(By PENS, or by never existing goal) to our exits, where we were after the game I don't want to say a laughstock, but close.

You can't deffend Mancini forever. 4 years of straight defeats in CL, that all look the same, wasn't enough for you ?
 

NimAraya

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Jose also lost to Pool in pens or by a goal that didn't happnen. Isn't that unlucky also? But compare their exit(By PENS, or by never existing goal) to our exits, where we were after the game I don't want to say a laughstock, but close.

That's another dirty game by him. You know if refree didn't allow that goal then what should he had to do?! A penalty and a red card for the one that committed the foul. That's more bad luck you know!
 
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