Inter's Financial Situation

Adriano@10

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Anyone qualified in this group to explain how this bond of 415M that apparently expires in 2027 is any different from the loan we had towards Oaktree that expired now?
Are there different terms on a bond compared to this loan? Implications of paying not paying it ?

I would be curious to understand how much of our P&L is made of loans and credits and how much of the costs we can actually sustain based on our revenues
WHat brehme and H said..
Not paying the bonds back would put us into bankruptcy think Parma back in the early 2000s... Of course there is some leeway as to how short we d fall and one can always negotiate with creditors but basically bankruptcy would be the consequence as these bonds are held by Inter and not the owners of inter like the oaktree loan was.
H. s number on breakeven are probably correct i d add that this season with the removal of the suning(oaktree) loan cost with the increase of the sponsorship money and with the club WC we should break even with our current debt load.
Also should be easier for us to refinance these 415mio then it was to refinance the oaktree loan keep in mind that we raised these 415 to refinance a 375 mio bond that came due that year....
My guess wuld be that oaktree wants to lower the debt slightly but i d guess we ll refinance it.
 

.h.

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WHat brehme and H said..
Not paying the bonds back would put us into bankruptcy think Parma back in the early 2000s... Of course there is some leeway as to how short we d fall and one can always negotiate with creditors but basically bankruptcy would be the consequence as these bonds are held by Inter and not the owners of inter like the oaktree loan was.
H. s number on breakeven are probably correct i d add that this season with the removal of the suning(oaktree) loan cost with the increase of the sponsorship money and with the club WC we should break even with our current debt load.
Also should be easier for us to refinance these 415mio then it was to refinance the oaktree loan keep in mind that we raised these 415 to refinance a 375 mio bond that came due that year....
My guess wuld be that oaktree wants to lower the debt slightly but i d guess we ll refinance it.
If I were oaktree, I'd pay off the loan. It's an EBIDTA impact that will improve the valuation of the club and therefore how much money they get back in a sale, so it makes sense for a PE to do (in a double dip fashion, as well. You knock off 415m of debt so it directly impacts enterprise value by +415m, and then you knock off the interest payments of lets say 25m a year which, x10, is another 250m of valuation impact as well)


the breakeven figure for this season is probably in the right ballpark, but that's obviously with the world club as an exception that we shouldnt be relying on - IMHO we should be aiming for break even to be something like Scudetto win + CL QF as the baseline target, with improved sponsorship etc as well

Things like the Betsson sponsorship help, of course, and apparently there's a forecast of 20-25mil euros of revenue from the jersey production too, etc
 
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dor83

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The new system where you pay more so you can sell the tickets to the games you don't go to should add more during the season too. With the new Plus tier for season tickets you can sell your ticket for games you aren't going to through a portal and you'll get 60% of the sale price, so I'd imagine the club will be making money from it too.
 

Adriano@10

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If I were oaktree, I'd pay off the loan. It's an EBIDTA impact that will improve the valuation of the club and therefore how much money they get back in a sale, so it makes sense for a PE to do (in a double dip fashion, as well. You knock off 415m of debt so it directly impacts enterprise value by +415m, and then you knock off the interest payments of lets say 25m a year which, x10, is another 250m of valuation impact as well)


the breakeven figure for this season is probably in the right ballpark, but that's obviously with the world club as an exception that we shouldnt be relying on - IMHO we should be aiming for break even to be something like Scudetto win + CL QF as the baseline target, with improved sponsorship etc as well

Things like the Betsson sponsorship help, of course, and apparently there's a forecast of 20-25mil euros of revenue from the jersey production too, etc
Not sure paying of the debt will make much of a difference in terms of Valuation when selling he club......Yes it impacts valuation by 415mio but you also just spent and additional 415 mio on said asset. Also lets keep in mind that the Zhangs still need to be paid the difference between sales price/ fair value and the 400 mio they owed... So not sure how much sense it would make to pay ff the debt completely... I d guess generally speaking if and how much they want to pay off of that loan depends a lot on their excess cash and their futur plans with inter as in do they even want to keep us?

In terms of break even again I think we ll get very close this season even without the club world cup.. If we made a loss of around 40 mio last year (my guess) we should more or less get their this season even without the Club WC.
Also generally i agree we should am to be break even imho even without the scudetto win... Our base case should be break even while finishing top 4 and reaching round of 16 in CL.
 

.h.

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Not sure paying of the debt will make much of a difference in terms of Valuation when selling he club......Yes it impacts valuation by 415mio but you also just spent and additional 415 mio on said asset. Also lets keep in mind that the Zhangs still need to be paid the difference between sales price/ fair value and the 400 mio they owed... So not sure how much sense it would make to pay ff the debt completely... I d guess generally speaking if and how much they want to pay off of that loan depends a lot on their excess cash and their futur plans with inter as in do they even want to keep us?

In terms of break even again I think we ll get very close this season even without the club world cup.. If we made a loss of around 40 mio last year (my guess) we should more or less get their this season even without the Club WC.
Also generally i agree we should am to be break even imho even without the scudetto win... Our base case should be break even while finishing top 4 and reaching round of 16 in CL.
in terms of net equity, if you had the 415m cash sat on the books of the club, then its zero sum EXCEPT for the EBITDA impact which should be quite significant


I suspect the financial case for finishing top 4 and CL16 only is a significant cut on our current cost basis, tbh.
 

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So it looks like the bondholders, if I understand this, finally got disclosed



Looks like the big FIF conspiracy theory that it was all held by other Zhang companies is wrong
 

brehme1989

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So it looks like the bondholders, if I understand this, finally got disclosed



Looks like the big FIF conspiracy theory that it was all held by other Zhang companies is wrong

Erm, not really? What's your giveaway, not seeing CCP or Zhang as the listed subscriber?

The gist of it was that the bonds were sold via big houses and as you should know, they don't disclose their client's names. I have bonds but almost none of them are on my name since I use a bank as an intermediary or buy indirectly via their fund.

I don't think I ever said that Zhang owned the entire thing, but implied that it could be affiliated to Chinese ventures.

I also mentioned back in the day that I heard from people within the investment banking world that the [first] Bond was doing quite well. There was a case where they issued 75m more of that.
I don't recall all details, but I was a bit puzzled as to why they had to refinance this and get more funds at a higher interest rate following the 2017 bond.

I haven't seen the conditions of the 2022 one, but assuming that Zhang found semi-related parties amongst the other investors.
 

IM21

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The sponsors Paramount+, Suning Sports, Ebay and Moncler have been removed from Inter's official website
 

uny_arturo

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The sponsors Paramount+, Suning Sports, Ebay and Moncler have been removed from Inter's official website
That's brutal. Paramount+, eBay and Moncler have a much better image and provide more synergies than this Betsson.Sport BS (literally). This is a short-sighted decision we'll regret enormously.

Would rather get the Qatar training kit.
 

IM21

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That's brutal. Paramount+, eBay and Moncler have a much better image and provide more synergies than this Betsson.Sport BS (literally). This is a short-sighted decision we'll regret enormously.

Would rather get the Qatar training kit.
Betsson is much more trustworthy than Digitalbits and they will pay more than Paramount... Moncler and Ebay will easily be replaced.
 

CafeCordoba

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That's brutal. Paramount+, eBay and Moncler have a much better image and provide more synergies than this Betsson.Sport BS (literally). This is a short-sighted decision we'll regret enormously.

Would rather get the Qatar training kit.
Betsson will pay close to 2x more than Paramount for the main sponsorship. For 4 years. One extra year is option if Inter wants to exercise it.

We still need the sleeve sponsorship. Moncler probably didn't pay too much, let's see what we can cook to replace it.
 
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