Copa América 2024

[brehme1989]

Meanwhile saying someone born in France isn’t French is factually incorrect.

I know what you wanna say here and in defense of this and the contexg and whatnot, but it's not "factually incorrect". It can be true.

France is rather complex in how they define who is French but they're very liberal about it and don't have any discriminatory stats like the USA or the UK.

They have jus sanguinis essentially but you can become a national/citizen if you're born in France provided that at least one of your parents is a French citizen, or if at least one parent is a non-citizen that was born in France. So pretty much 2nd generation jus soli.
But mostly jus sanguinis as any French parent automatically has a French citizen child no matter where it was born.


Which means, you're not French if you're born in France. It's conditional. I wouldn't be French if I was born in France instead of Greece for example. Had I lived my entire life there and had a kid there, my kid would qualify as French while I'd be battling the bureaucrats about my status.

 

[thatdude]

You see a lot of winning football teams serenading the team they beat at the final whistle?

It’s baiting, why feign ignorance

Serenading? They sung it at their own trophy celebration. If Argentina players would have sung that they stopped Mbappe there would be no issue.

I’m not the one feigning ignorance here.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

I can understand arguments up to a certain point. For instance, Johnny Cardoso was born in the United States as the child of two native born Brazilians who immigrated to the United States. Before he was even a year old, his parents moved back to Brazil. Despite what he says publicly (which is stuff he must say), there's no doubt in my mind his playing for the United States internationally is out of opportunity more than it is for love of country - not that there's anything wrong with that - and that if he were good enough to play for Brazil that he would. He grew up in Brazil, speaks Portuguese (when he was profiled in The Athletic recently, it was mentioned that his interview took place with a translator; you can interpret that how you wish, it doesn't outright mean his English sucks, he just might've preferred having a safety blanket there), if there's a part of him that feels a genuine connection to the United States because it's part of his history, then good for him, but if someone like that had never played for the US then odds are he wouldn't be considered American because there's nothing other than spending three months of his life - the first three months - living in the country.

With any of the black guys on the French team, that's a different story. Mbappé was born in Paris. He's spent his entire life up until now in France (or Monaco). Tchouaméni was born in France. Saliba was born in France. Dembélé was born in France. Camavinga was born in Angola - he's not the basis for the racist chant, Angola is used for rhythmic purposes, this is just a coincidence - but his parents moved to France when he was still an infant. He was raised in France. I could continue on with this list. These are French citizens, raised in French culture, speak French as their primary language (or as a de facto primary language), and I couldn't give the tiniest little fuck if France is a predominantly white country and yet their best footballers are almost all black. Same thing happens in the United States too. On average, black people tend to make better athletes than white people. Watch an NBA game, an NFL game, a Real Madrid game, a French or Brazilian national team game, it's quite apparent. The only people who have a problem with this are white racists who feel inferior. Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourselves.

To top it off, some of the comments coming from Argentine political figures are just absurdly ridiculous. Returning fire at France by saying you won't be shouted down by a colonial country, as if the targets of the racism were the colonizers and not the people from countries that were colonized. Like Argentina has a wonderful history in global relations. Definitely no juntas, military regimes, "disappearing" thousands of political dissidents because they disagreed with Pinochet. If anything, the realization I have is that it's actually a bit easier to understand - not justify, there is no justification - why Argentines like Enzo Fernandez might say what he says and not realize why it's so damaging. Black people were basically wiped out of Argentina. Their former president once called Brazil's black population "their problem". Maybe easy enough to marginalize, racially abuse, and claim ignorance towards black people when you never see them and your political leaders in the 21st century consider them 2nd class citizens. Of course, this doesn't explain the transphobia in the chant either directed towards Mbappé, but I guess there's room for Catholicism to share in the blame here too.

...whatever. I'm tired of dealing with polluted, broken cultures leading this world into a dark place.

 

[brehme1989]

- not that there's anything wrong with that -

 

[Kramerica Industries]

View attachment 12948

There is nobody on this forum with a more appropriate name than mine to use that phrase.

 

[Linege]

I can understand arguments up to a certain point. For instance, Johnny Cardoso was born in the United States as the child of two native born Brazilians who immigrated to the United States. Before he was even a year old, his parents moved back to Brazil. Despite what he says publicly (which is stuff he must say), there's no doubt in my mind his playing for the United States internationally is out of opportunity more than it is for love of country - not that there's anything wrong with that - and that if he were good enough to play for Brazil that he would. He grew up in Brazil, speaks Portuguese (when he was profiled in The Athletic recently, it was mentioned that his interview took place with a translator; you can interpret that how you wish, it doesn't outright mean his English sucks, he just might've preferred having a safety blanket there), if there's a part of him that feels a genuine connection to the United States because it's part of his history, then good for him, but if someone like that had never played for the US then odds are he wouldn't be considered American because there's nothing other than spending three months of his life - the first three months - living in the country.

With any of the black guys on the French team, that's a different story. Mbappé was born in Paris. He's spent his entire life up until now in France (or Monaco). Tchouaméni was born in France. Saliba was born in France. Dembélé was born in France. Camavinga was born in Angola - he's not the basis for the racist chant, Angola is used for rhythmic purposes, this is just a coincidence - but his parents moved to France when he was still an infant. He was raised in France. I could continue on with this list. These are French citizens, raised in French culture, speak French as their primary language (or as a de facto primary language), and I couldn't give the tiniest little fuck if France is a predominantly white country and yet their best footballers are almost all black. Same thing happens in the United States too. On average, black people tend to make better athletes than white people. Watch an NBA game, an NFL game, a Real Madrid game, a French or Brazilian national team game, it's quite apparent. The only people who have a problem with this are white racists who feel inferior. Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourselves.

To top it off, some of the comments coming from Argentine political figures are just absurdly ridiculous. Returning fire at France by saying you won't be shouted down by a colonial country, as if the targets of the racism were the colonizers and not the people from countries that were colonized. Like Argentina has a wonderful history in global relations. Definitely no juntas, military regimes, "disappearing" thousands of political dissidents because they disagreed with Pinochet. If anything, the realization I have is that it's actually a bit easier to understand - not justify, there is no justification - why Argentines like Enzo Fernandez might say what he says and not realize why it's so damaging. Black people were basically wiped out of Argentina. Their former president once called Brazil's black population "their problem". Maybe easy enough to marginalize, racially abuse, and claim ignorance towards black people when you never see them and your political leaders in the 21st century consider them 2nd class citizens. Of course, this doesn't explain the transphobia in the chant either directed towards Mbappé, but I guess there's room for Catholicism to share in the blame here too.

...whatever. I'm tired of dealing with polluted, broken cultures leading this world into a dark place.

i see you just cant stop yourself

why you, as an american forcing african mass immigration of mbappes on me, a guy living in europe?

can i have a say on this?

 

[ADRossi]

Alright guys, we're done with this topic.

 

[_OC_]

With any of the black guys on the French team, that's a different story. Mbappé was born in Paris. He's spent his entire life up until now in France (or Monaco). Tchouaméni was born in France. Saliba was born in France. Dembélé was born in France. Camavinga was born in Angola - he's not the basis for the racist chant, Angola is used for rhythmic purposes, this is just a coincidence - but his parents moved to France when he was still an infant. He was raised in France. I could continue on with this list. These are French citizens, raised in French culture, speak French as their primary language (or as a de facto primary language), and I couldn't give the tiniest little fuck if France is a predominantly white country and yet their best footballers are almost all black. Same thing happens in the United States too. On average, black people tend to make better athletes than white people. Watch an NBA game, an NFL game, a Real Madrid game, a French or Brazilian national team game, it's quite apparent. The only people who have a problem with this are white racists who feel inferior. Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourselves.

Alright, since attributing generalisations, intrinsic qualities and wirings based on the color of people's skin is fine and dandy with you - and the moderators, seemingly - I'll bite;
I do think most Europeans would prefer if their countries weren't filled with "black guys" who, on average, tend to commit more crime, kill more people, steal more, rape more, do nothing and live off welfare and systems based on systems built off of thousands of years of hard work and blood, shed and tears and generally bring backward ass-thinking cultures which, relative to european customs, marginalize women, sexual minorities and anyone else not within their own tribe, sowing distrust and unsafety amongst the general population - you know, just on average - if the trade-off was that their kick-ball team was, relatively, just a little less better.
But yeah, socio-economics, slavery and colonialism (which, uhh, apparently, is historically a uniquely European custom, the Ottomans what, The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade was based on black peope selling black people what, there are more slaves today in the World than there ever were during the height of the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade what) and all that jazz, so who cares about parts of Marseille and Paris being literal no-go zones for police or parts of France (and Sweden, and the Netherlands, and Belgium, and the UK, and Spain) looking like third-world countries because of a massive influx of people that for 50+ years now have shown that they on the whole are unable to integrate and assimilate, offers nothing and cares not one bit for the country that they're in.

This is, remember, the so-called French 'national team' consisting of some of the most privileged people in the world, led by the multimillionaire idiot of a nepo-baby in Thuram, who sat well and truly in their ivory towers and demonized and vilified 37% of its population for even daring to vote a way in which they didn't like because they're worried in the direction their country is headed. Instead, they had to bow down to political correctness and their multicultural masters, many of whom don't even live in France, the captain being an entirely and utterly French person more french than a baguette..... that initially wanted to play for Cameroon.

Kylian Mbappe's father reveals why striker dumped Cameroon to play for France

Kylian Mbappe has made efforts to play for the Cameroon senior national football team, but his father claims an official of the country's FA demanded money.

sportsbrief.com

Go ahead, ban me for saying something that doesn't allign with your opinions, whatever the hell, but the FIF-moderation team has long since forgotten about moderating political posts on this forum, and somehow always only gets their thumb out of their asses and shuts down discussion when someone pushes back against a perceived center-left wing talking point. You've had the maniac that is Crazed Columbian, whether jokingly or not, clamour for the literal death of white people because of Cocaine-intake so Colombia could inflate it's BNP and has been obsessively been rambling about people's skin color for months now. Nothing has happened. Now you have thatdude, a moderator, liking a post that is nothing but political - even though everyone and their mother knows that it's not allowed - which essentially boils down to "blacks are better than white people and the whole of Argentina is racist".
Either shit or get off the pot, meaning, either clamp down on political talk on this forum or let the ideas flow freely, but this "we'll actually allow political talk until something that could be seen as right wing is said" doesn't work. The veil is off.

 

[ADRossi]

Well, I do find it humorous that I - a lifelong conservative party voter - am actively accused of having "center-left bias."

Anyway, you're reading too far into this specific interaction, @_OC_. I still haven't even read the initial post by Kramerica. I suppose you could argue as a forum moderator I have a responsibility to read it, it doesn't take a genius IQ to figure out it's political in nature. Anyway, when Linege directly replied and it was clear the temperature of the conservation was trending towards people getting mad at each other I tried to quash it. Didn't work, obviously.

I agree that infractions need to start being issued for political discussions. It's a harder problem than one would think. Lines are often blurred. If someone calls Nike "woke trash" is that infraction worthy? Is it political? If someone says they don't care what Acerbi said to Juan Jesus, they would extend him anyway, is that an implied political statement? Me and the moderator team will do everything in our power to make the right decisions. Just be warned, we're going to make mistakes at some point.

All I'm saying is that I try to the best of my ability to let everyone here be adults, because I don't want to lose any of you as forum members. Usually you guys do an awesome job of that. I'm not hearing wide ranging complaints from many forum members. If there's pent up frustration with how we, as a moderator team here, handles things, I'm open to hear it. However, if no one has any feedback for me beyond what @_OC_ says, then maybe this place just isn't for you anymore, my man.

I'll open a thread to discuss approach after I talk to the other mods, and we'll take it from there. Leaving this thread closed for now.

 

[thatdude]

We’ve definitely become too lax with moderating politics. Again, as ADRossi said we try to treat everyone like adults here. However, the one thing I do agree with from OC’s post is that we obviously need to return to a more hard line stance. Don’t worry, we will rectify that.

@_OC_ if you took away from Kramerica’s post that blacks are better than whites and Argentina is racist than our reading comprehension is certainly different. The difference between your post and his post is that it was actually addressing the story in discussion which was in regard to Enzo Fernandez and the Argentina national team. With that being said, it did delve more into politics than we would have allowed a few years back. And as mentioned we will be returning to that harder stance so posts like that will not be tolerated in the future.

Your post in comparison immediately devolves into a rant about how black immigrants are ruining Europe. While we’ve taken a slightly more relaxed approach on this forum with politics in recent times, we have always had zero tolerance for xenophobia and racism. So yes, you are getting banned.

For the rest of the forum. Moving forward we will no longer tolerate political posts. It will result in infractions and ultimately a ban. Please feel free to keep us honest by reporting posts that you feel need to be moderated. We tried to be more lenient because as @ADRossi said because we don’t want to lose members. However, that is obviously a slippery slope, especially in such a multi-national and multi-cultural forum. Let’s remember that this place is ultimately about, which is our love for Inter.

We are brothers of the world, so let’s act like it!